Quick luthiery/manteinance questions not deserving a thread

[MaxOfMetal]

I'm sure this situation has come up before, but I wanted to do my first refret for a while, just waited for the right low-value neck to come my way, watched a ton of videos, got really excited. It's practically ASMR. So sat down to do the refret, heated up the fret with the soldering iron a bit, saw some glue residue seep out, grabbed the fret pullers, and ... what? It can't get the fret?? It just can't get under it anywhere. On the edge of the board, the frets are sat back a little, and the frets themselves are very flat, trapezoidal, flaring outwards. Its like trying to lift a pyramid from the ground without digging into the sand.

I can upload pictures but I think you get the point. I took a thin razor blade and tried to kind of scrape under it, and I can get it under the fret in some parts, but there's a big difference between the width of the razor blade and the fret pullers. Any tips?

Wound up having a go with it throwing all the tricks at it. None of them worked. The only thing I could really do is start from the center of the fret, where the grippers could actually get under it. Unfortunately it was pretty impossible to stop chip-out starting from the middle and also needing a ton of force to finally get the grippers to slide under there :-/

On the last 4 frets or so I switched to the Hosco narrow tool instead of the stewmac fret cutters. Then I was able to get it going pretty cleanly, I think?

And more oiling for the body:

If they're really really stuck in there, happens a lot when they're hammered or pressed a bit too hard, I'll take a very narrow chisel and give them a tap either at the end or middle. It's basically a razor blade but with a handle you can get some purchase on. Then grab the nippers.

But yeah, agree with @Asdrael, that doesn't look too bad and once processed should look great.

 

[narad]

Thanks! I was a bit tempted to try the sort of fender fret removal strategy of hammering a bit out on the side, just enough to get a grip and remove from the top. I think if I had something to put pressure down on both sides while starting from near-middle, it would have been pretty clean. I was very careful and slow, just kind of bad initial spot -- except for the very first fret where I was still trying to get the chip-stoppers to slide in under what I had lifted up already, and as I was trying to reach necessary force (given how nonexistence gap was between board and fret) in one moment, everything wen flying and I was left holding the grippers looking down at an empty slot, with the chipstopper and fret halfway across the room. That was the worst one for sure.

This is not really an important neck, but my hope was to build up the confidence to refret ESPs, and unfortunately this, albeit educational, doesn't really get me there. I'll try some epoxy/ebony powder on the big chips here, but on the ESP, I don't even want to get it bad enough to need it.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

Thanks! I was a bit tempted to try the sort of fender fret removal strategy of hammering a bit out on the side, just enough to get a grip and remove from the top. I think if I had something to put pressure down on both sides while starting from near-middle, it would have been pretty clean. I was very careful and slow, just kind of bad initial spot -- except for the very first fret where I was still trying to get the chip-stoppers to slide in under what I had lifted up already, and as I was trying to reach necessary force (given how nonexistence gap was between board and fret) in one moment, everything wen flying and I was left holding the grippers looking down at an empty slot, with the chipstopper and fret halfway across the room. That was the worst one for sure.

This is not really an important neck, but my hope was to build up the confidence to refret ESPs, and unfortunately this, albeit educational, doesn't really get me there. I'll try some epoxy/ebony powder on the big chips here, but on the ESP, I don't even want to get it bad enough to need it.

It took double digits before I felt really comfortable. You find your comfort zones and get used to less than ideal situations.

Wait until you have to deal with binding, and Dio forbid nibs.

Just keep at it. Eventually it'll get boring.

 

[Briz]

What are your suggestions for understring radius gauges for 7 strings? I'm looking at the Stewmac extra wide set of 9. Anyone have experience with this set? I'm open to suggestions. I have multiple 7 strings with varying radii. Thanks.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

What are your suggestions for understring radius gauges for 7 strings? I'm looking at the Stewmac extra wide set of 9. Anyone have experience with this set? I'm open to suggestions. I have multiple 7 strings with varying radii. Thanks.

Most sets are wide enough if that's what you're worried about. I have an older version of the StewMac set and they're solid. It's one of those things that's hard to get wrong.

Some of the really cheap Amazon/AliExpress ones are paper thin and bend easily.

 

[Briz]

Most sets are wide enough if that's what you're worried about. I have an older version of the StewMac set and they're solid. It's one of those things that's hard to get wrong.

Some of the really cheap Amazon/AliExpress ones are paper thin and bend easily.

So the extra wide aren't necessarily necessary for 7 strings? I'm embarassed to admit my ignorance here. I'm looking for tools that will help me with basic setups.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

So the extra wide aren't necessarily necessary for 7 strings? I'm embarassed to admit my ignorance here. I'm looking for tools that will help me with basic setups.

For what you typically use that style of gauge for I've found most sets serviceable for your average 7. You're just checking the base radius of the strings, it's not like you need high precision. But it depends on the set.

Truth be told, you don't even need radius gauges in most cases. Measuring individual string height can do the same thing.

 

[Hollowway]

Is it possible to take a neck through guitar, plane/sand down the top, and affix a new top wood to it? I know it would be a lot more straightforward with a bolt-on, but I want to do it with a neck through. I'm imagining a router, or planer, or even some sort of band saw jig, but I'm not sure how it's done.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

Is it possible to take a neck through guitar, plane/sand down the top, and affix a new top wood to it? I know it would be a lot more straightforward with a bolt-on, but I want to do it with a neck through. I'm imagining a router, or planer, or even some sort of band saw jig, but I'm not sure how it's done.

Yeah, it can be done. Seems like a stupid amount of work, especially if you don't already have some fixtures, but the idea is sound.

It's also going to be somewhat dependent on how thick you're going and the neck joint configuration.

This is one of those jobs that I'd probably turn down unless the payout was significant and the customer knew what a pain in the ass it would be and the associated risk.

Let's put it this way, there's a non-zero chance it would end up in the weird/why? guitars thread.

A veneer would be like 1/10th the effort and have roughly the same visual result.

 

[Hollowway]

Yeah, it can be done. Seems like a stupid amount of work, especially if you don't already have some fixtures, but the idea is sound.

It's also going to be somewhat dependent on how thick you're going and the neck joint configuration.

This is one of those jobs that I'd probably turn down unless the payout was significant and the customer knew what a pain in the ass it would be and the associated risk.

Let's put it this way, there's a non-zero chance it would end up in the weird/why? guitars thread.

A veneer would be like 1/10th the effort and have roughly the same visual result.

If there’s a bit of a curve to the edge - think older Carvin style bodies, or Ibanez SR basses - is it still possible to adapt the veneer?

 

[c7spheres]

Is it possible to take a neck through guitar, plane/sand down the top, and affix a new top wood to it? I know it would be a lot more straightforward with a bolt-on, but I want to do it with a neck through. I'm imagining a router, or planer, or even some sort of band saw jig, but I'm not sure how it's done.

I don't know how it's done but it's certainly possible. Not to bring up a touchy subject but Ed Roman did ton's of retops on Lp's and other stuff. Though he wasn't a popular guy their luthiers did excellent work. Not sure if they still do this stuff or not but his old site still has many example. They look like they were built with the new top's.

 

[CanserDYI]

If there’s a bit of a curve to the edge - think older Carvin style bodies, or Ibanez SR basses - is it still possible to adapt the veneer?

Honestly, I'd assume veneering would be preferable over a solid top for a curve.

 

[ElRay]

Is it possible to take a neck through guitar, plane/sand down the top, and affix a new top wood to it? I know it would be a lot more straightforward with a bolt-on, but I want to do it with a neck through. I'm imagining a router, or planer, or even some sort of band saw jig, but I'm not sure how it's done.

Are you retrofitting, or building from scratch?

If retrofitting, you could build a router sled and take-off what you need.

if building from scratch, just cut your neck blank down at the end, and thickness your wings, to allow for the cap.

 

[ElysianGuitars]

Is it possible to take a neck through guitar, plane/sand down the top, and affix a new top wood to it? I know it would be a lot more straightforward with a bolt-on, but I want to do it with a neck through. I'm imagining a router, or planer, or even some sort of band saw jig, but I'm not sure how it's done.

Yes, definitely possible, given you have the right tools. You'll basically have to route the old top off, so you'll want a CNC, pin router setup, or some sort of routing sled.

 

[Hollowway]

Yes, definitely possible, given you have the right tools. You'll basically have to route the old top off, so you'll want a CNC, pin router setup, or some sort of routing sled.

Based on this, and what @ElRay said, a router sled is going to be the cheapest option. At SOME point, I want to get into building, and do so in the cheapest, but best, way. (In other words, I'm not going to buy $20,000 worth of equipment just to make a handful of guitars, but at the same time I don't want to make do with crappy stuff). So maybe I'll consider a CNC, as well.

Next question - since I'm clearly on my way to making my life difficult, lol: How easy is it to remove and replace a fretboard?

If you're curious where this is all coming from, it's because I just bought a cheap Galveston 8 string bass, and, while it will be functional, I'd love to enjoy looking at it, as well. I can probably forego the retopping, but I reeeeeally would like to swap out the FB for an ebony one, and refret it. (Or have it done by someone.)

 

[Alberto7]

Based on this, and what @ElRay said, a router sled is going to be the cheapest option. At SOME point, I want to get into building, and do so in the cheapest, but best, way. (In other words, I'm not going to buy $20,000 worth of equipment just to make a handful of guitars, but at the same time I don't want to make do with crappy stuff). So maybe I'll consider a CNC, as well.

Next question - since I'm clearly on my way to making my life difficult, lol: How easy is it to remove and replace a fretboard?

If you're curious where this is all coming from, it's because I just bought a cheap Galveston 8 string bass, and, while it will be functional, I'd love to enjoy looking at it, as well. I can probably forego the retopping, but I reeeeeally would like to swap out the FB for an ebony one, and refret it. (Or have it done by someone.)

I suppose it'll depend on the glue used, but heat should do it. Never done anything like that myself, but I've spoken with people that have used heating blankets to heat up the fretboard and then slowly unglue it bit by bit with a thin wedge underneath it.

 

[Hollowway]

I suppose it'll depend on the glue used, but heat should do it. Never done anything like that myself, but I've spoken with people that have used heating blankets to heat up the fretboard and then slowly unglue it bit by bit with a thin wedge underneath it.

Yeah, I’ve read to pull the frets, plane it level, and then heat it with an iron to soften the glue. It SOUNDS way more daunting than taking down the top of the body. Maybe I’ll see if there’s a luthier around who could do it. That’s an issue in and of itself, because it seems everyone is a tech, but no one can do any actual wood work. I’ll have to do a bit of digging.

 

[imyourpriest]

All of this refret talk brought up a question I’ve been meaning to ask here. I have a question about an issue that really isn’t an issue, more of a question of curiosity.

I have a guitar (last ngd in post history) that I had the NS frets replaced with SS. Guitar was brand new. I’m very happy with how it feels, can’t really notice any fret sprout issues over the winter, and the polish and crown feels good too. However the tangs are a bit crooked in a couple places, specifically on some past the 12th fret.

When I was working with the guy I specifically wanted Jescar 57110 and I wanted it compound radius 12-14” (12” all the way stock). From what we found the 57110 was a bit bigger tang than stock, plus with the radius changing, would that be why the tang is bent in some areas? He stated he believed it was from the bigger tang + pressing them into the board enough to ensure no issues.

Is it not a great re-fret because of this and are there any issues I should be aware of or may need to refret in the future? Would them being bent now affect a future refret? In fairness to the local guy, it was brand new, and we knew there might be some slight issues with the bigger tang. I also said I was fine with the tang showing, I don’t mind the Fender + others look but I haven’t run into or seen any pictures that had a crooked tang like this.

As I said they feel fine, comparative to my JP7 with stock SS frets. And no fret sprout that I can tell, plus the edges are smooth with the side when playing. Just a question if anyone has ever run into this and if I should watch out for anything or be thinking about a future refret from someone else maybe more known for SS refretting.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

All of this refret talk brought up a question I’ve been meaning to ask here. I have a question about an issue that really isn’t an issue, more of a question of curiosity.

I have a guitar (last ngd in post history) that I had the NS frets replaced with SS. Guitar was brand new. I’m very happy with how it feels, can’t really notice any fret sprout issues over the winter, and the polish and crown feels good too. However the tangs are a bit crooked in a couple places, specifically on some past the 12th fret.

When I was working with the guy I specifically wanted Jescar 57110 and I wanted it compound radius 12-14” (12” all the way stock). From what we found the 57110 was a bit bigger tang than stock, plus with the radius changing, would that be why the tang is bent in some areas? He stated he believed it was from the bigger tang + pressing them into the board enough to ensure no issues.

Is it not a great re-fret because of this and are there any issues I should be aware of or may need to refret in the future? Would them being bent now affect a future refret? In fairness to the local guy, it was brand new, and we knew there might be some slight issues with the bigger tang. I also said I was fine with the tang showing, I don’t mind the Fender + others look but I haven’t run into or seen any pictures that had a crooked tang like this.

As I said they feel fine, comparative to my JP7 with stock SS frets. And no fret sprout that I can tell, plus the edges are smooth with the side when playing. Just a question if anyone has ever run into this and if I should watch out for anything or be thinking about a future refret from someone else maybe more known for SS refretting.

This happens sometimes depending on how the frets are trimmed prior to pressing and if the barbs on the tang dig in to one side more than another.

It might not look as uniform as you want, but there isn't anything functionally wrong with it and shouldn't be an issue moving forward.

 

[imyourpriest]

This happens sometimes depending on how the frets are trimmed prior to pressing and if the barbs on the tang dig in to one side more than another.

It might not look as uniform as you want, but there isn't anything functionally wrong with it and shouldn't be an issue moving forward.

That makes sense! Glad to know it isn’t something crazy or a bad sign. I don’t mind how they look at all, just wanted to ensure no future issues. Thanks for putting my mind at ease.