Recording/Studio Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread - Megathread

[Stiman]

Regarding the beyerdynamic headphones mentioned earlier in the thread (and probably most headphones), I highly highly recommend that people implement the corrective EQ found in this thread:

index/list_of_presets - oratory1990

r/oratory1990: Mostly covering topics like headphones, in-ear headphones, acoustics, electroacoustics, acoustic tuning, headphone design …

www.reddit.com

I can't emphasize enough the monumental improvement it made to the flatness of my DT990 Pro (250 Ohms). I created an EQ preset with the suggested correction and it's literally night and day what I can here.

If you use sonar works, then you don't need this. But this is free so, there's that.

 

[AwakenTheSkies]

Regarding the beyerdynamic headphones mentioned earlier in the thread (and probably most headphones), I highly highly recommend that people implement the corrective EQ found in this thread:

index/list_of_presets - oratory1990

r/oratory1990: Mostly covering topics like headphones, in-ear headphones, acoustics, electroacoustics, acoustic tuning, headphone design …

www.reddit.com

I can't emphasize enough the monumental improvement it made to the flatness of my DT990 Pro (250 Ohms). I created an EQ preset with the suggested correction and it's literally night and day what I can here.

If you use sonar works, then you don't need this. But this is free so, there's that.

Hahaha I don't get it. I've used both Sonarworks and some of those Waves plugins that simulate mixing in a room. It just makes the headphones sound bad? I mean yeah it makes them flat, but also makes them sound ugly.

If you're using a reference track, why does it matter whether you flatten them with EQ or not?

I only use Sonarworks (SoundID?) and Waves rooms to "mix check" when I'm finished, in case they reveal something I haven't heard? But that's almost never the case.. In fact when I had recently bought them and expected them to help me mix better I became really frustrated because it was more of the same, just sounding different. Actually the Waves room can make you do bad mix decision because how deceiving it can be...

 

[Stiman]

Hahaha I don't get it

It appears so.

 

[TedEH]

I mean yeah it makes them flat, but also makes them sound ugly.

I think that's kind of the point. An "ugly" sound is showing you all of it's rough edges. A set of headphones or speakers or eq curves that smooth away imperfections are counterproductive for mixing.

 

[AwakenTheSkies]

I think that's kind of the point. An "ugly" sound is showing you all of it's rough edges. A set of headphones or speakers or eq curves that smooth away imperfections are counterproductive for mixing.

Hmm. Have you ever found something that sounds great with the default EQ curve but sounds like shit after you turn on the EQ "correction"? That's what I mean.

I get that you want to get something neutral sounding because you want to translate well in other places. But Beyer phones are already made with mixing & recording in mind so why flatten them? People aren't going to listen to your stuff on flat sounding speakers, they use their phones and car speakers and on top of that the built-in EQ software which probably V shape EQs the fuck out of everything because that's how it makes it sound more intense..
Idk if I wasn't happy with my headphones I'd just buy better headphones instead of making myself suffer with Sonarworks hahaha

But I like the new features where you can simulate the sound of a phone, of a laptop, or whatever. It's cool to check the mix with ...

 

[Stiman]

Idk if I wasn't happy with my headphones I'd just buy better headphones instead of making myself suffer with Sonarworks hahaha

I've never tried sonar works, but if you're saying you had to "suffer" while using that product, I don't even know what that means.

What I'm talking about, these corrective EQ curves, have turned my 990 Pros from "hey, these sound great" to "oh shit, now I can actually hear everything!"

 

[TedEH]

something neutral sounding

I would think the goal isn't "neutral sounding", the goal is "accurate representation of the signal" or "the most, and most useful, information to work with".

I mean, I don't use corrective eq for headphones either, but it's not so much because it sounds less-neutral, it's more because I don't trust a software filter to not be destructive and leave me with something less accurate than what I started with. That might be misinformed - I'm not an expert on these things. My dumb-guy assumption would be that any driver can't really ever be more "accurate" to a signal than what you'd get raw from it, because that correction has to distort the signal in some way to get to that "corrected" state.

Someone who understands the subject better than me - am I anywhere close, or have I made a bad assumption?

 

[Stiman]

I would think the goal isn't "neutral sounding", the goal is "accurate representation of the signal" or "the most, and most useful, information to work with".

I mean, I don't use corrective eq for headphones either, but it's not so much because it sounds less-neutral, it's more because I don't trust a software filter to not be destructive and leave me with something less accurate than what I started with. That might be misinformed - I'm not an expert on these things. My dumb-guy assumption would be that any driver can't really ever be more "accurate" to a signal than what you'd get raw from it, because that correction has to distort the signal in some way to get to that "corrected" state.

Someone who understands the subject better than me - am I anywhere close, or have I made a bad assumption?

Well, in this case, we're talking about a single instance of ReaEQ on your master bus (assuming you're using REAPER). If your finished song has something like 10 to 50 instances of an EQ on various tracks, plus whatever effects and other things you're doing, I don't think that 1 additional instance that shapes the sound before your headphones is gonna make or break anything.

Here's the DT990 Pro for example:

 

[AwakenTheSkies]

I've never tried sonar works, but if you're saying you had to "suffer" while using that product, I don't even know what that means.

What I'm talking about, these corrective EQ curves, have turned my 990 Pros from "hey, these sound great" to "oh shit, now I can actually hear everything!"

Hahah I'm saying it jokingly, by suffer I mean being frustrated because you expect it to make things better but it really doesn't. It just makes the headphones sound flat, there's no change in detail for me. You could get used to your headphones really well and it's the same thing. When you're using a reference track, what difference does it make whether you're listening with your headphones default EQ curve or using EQ correction? You can hear the differences all the same, you just don't have to deal with the unpleasantness of listening to things with the flattening EQ filter on. Just my opinion though.
I'm really happy your EQ correction thing helps you hear things better

I mean, I don't use corrective eq for headphones either, but it's not so much because it sounds less-neutral, it's more because I don't trust a software filter to not be destructive and leave me with something less accurate than what I started with. That might be misinformed - I'm not an expert on these things. My dumb-guy assumption would be that any driver can't really ever be more "accurate" to a signal than what you'd get raw from it, because that correction has to distort the signal in some way to get to that "corrected" state.

Exactly! That's what I mean. Try Waves Abbey Road room thing for example. The big far speakers hype the fuck out of the bass, if you mix with that on, that's how you end up with a mix with no bass... It's cool to check things on it but little else.
There's other interesting things though for example like Slate VSX or Sonarworks themselves who make calibrated headphones and specific EQ profiles for those calibrated headphones, I wonder how good that stuff is..

 

[TedEH]

I don't think that 1 additional instance that shapes the sound before your headphones is gonna make or break anything.

I mean, slapping an EQ on your master in Reaper, is, by definition, changing the signal you're monitoring, and putting a whole lot of trust in the accuracy of that filter. I think that absolutely could be make-or-break. Imagine, for example, that your correction needs to fix a really hyped bassy headphone. So you have a giant cut in the low end. What you're now monitoring is your signal with the low end cut out of it, not your original signal. If the correction is extreme enough, and your headphone level is low enough, you might just remove whole bands. Now it's just missing information. Or if the reaper filter doesn't quite have the same roll off as the real measurement, then you're still inaccurate. Even the screenshot you posted has some pretty extreme corrections in it.

Going the other way around, if a headphone is incapable of accurately producing a frequency, giving it more of what it's bad at is just going to give you more of the problem - because an inaccuracy in headphones is likely not just a strict "there's x amount of this frequency" kind of problem. You can't correct for distortion or compression or anything else that isn't just a linear eq type thing.

And that ignores that an EQ like that can't compensate for loudness - because the amount of correction needed is not likely to be the same across loudness levels, so you'd need to scale the correction to the listening level.

I don't think that these are insurmountable problems, and a smart-enough filter might be able to provide something accurate enough to be useful, but I don't think a simple EQ curve slapped on the master is the right approach.

 

[bjjman]

I think headphone correction is quite important. I originally started with DearVR. It immediately made my mixes translate better across different environments but I hated using it as the room emulation just sounded off to my ears. Almost a weird phase issue. I've switched to Realphones now and I'm much happier with that as a plugin.

 

[Stiman]

I mean, slapping an EQ on your master in Reaper, is, by definition, changing the signal you're monitoring, and putting a whole lot of trust in the accuracy of that filter. I think that absolutely could be make-or-break. Imagine, for example, that your correction needs to fix a really hyped bassy headphone. So you have a giant cut in the low end. What you're now monitoring is your signal with the low end cut out of it, not your original signal. If the correction is extreme enough, and your headphone level is low enough, you might just remove whole bands. Now it's just missing information. Or if the reaper filter doesn't quite have the same roll off as the real measurement, then you're still inaccurate. Even the screenshot you posted has some pretty extreme corrections in it.

Going the other way around, if a headphone is incapable of accurately producing a frequency, giving it more of what it's bad at is just going to give you more of the problem - because an inaccuracy in headphones is likely not just a strict "there's x amount of this frequency" kind of problem. You can't correct for distortion or compression or anything else that isn't just a linear eq type thing.

And that ignores that an EQ like that can't compensate for loudness - because the amount of correction needed is not likely to be the same across loudness levels, so you'd need to scale the correction to the listening level.

I don't think that these are insurmountable problems, and a smart-enough filter might be able to provide something accurate enough to be useful, but I don't think a simple EQ curve slapped on the master is the right approach.

You may be right. All I can say is my experience is nothing short of phenomenal. Things are translating significantly better, and also, when comparing my headphones with the corrective EQ and my monitors, the sound very close now.

Anyway, I'll just stop here. If someone takes the time to try the corrective EQ and finds value, then my post will have been worth it.

 

[TedEH]

I mean, if it works, it works. I'm just speculating or guessing as to why it might not be "technically correct". But music is art, and art rarely needs to be "technically correct".

 

[ThePIGI King]

So I got the Gen 4 4i4 and this thing is a pain in my butt. It only will accept input from everything for a few moments, then no longer receives any signal. Not even from my computer. My computer sees the device, and it DOES work, for about 30 seconds. Then nothingness. But it's still powered on. And my computer still sees it, and it says its still sending signal. But the Scarlett just doesn't seem to do anything with that signal?

It also isn't recognized by the Focusrite Control. I've followed all of the help on the Focusrite Website. I don't know if mine is just junk, but it doesn't work. And that's a huge shame. I've emailed a super in depth email to customer support. But color me disappointed. Honestly, if I end up having to return this, I will look into getting any other brand that has the headphone amp and 4 in/4 out for a similar-ish price. Terrible experience. Especially since the first time I downloaded their Control app my computer crashed and it took me an hour to figure out how to go into safemode and uninstall the app lol it's been a bad day for me and this 4i4.

 

[TedEH]

That's surprising. Is it a laptop? I know the newer models are bus-powered so I'd wonder if maybe some weird USB setting isn't providing enough juice or something. Only time I've ever had trouble with my 4i4 was with an older laptop.

 

[ThePIGI King]

That's surprising. Is it a laptop? I know the newer models are bus-powered so I'd wonder if maybe some weird USB setting isn't providing enough juice or something. Only time I've ever had trouble with my 4i4 was with an older laptop.

Nope. It's a Dell Desktop. Newer too - the specs of the computer are way more than capable to handle it.

 

[STRHelvete]

So I got the Gen 4 4i4 and this thing is a pain in my butt. It only will accept input from everything for a few moments, then no longer receives any signal. Not even from my computer. My computer sees the device, and it DOES work, for about 30 seconds. Then nothingness. But it's still powered on. And my computer still sees it, and it says its still sending signal. But the Scarlett just doesn't seem to do anything with that signal?

It also isn't recognized by the Focusrite Control. I've followed all of the help on the Focusrite Website. I don't know if mine is just junk, but it doesn't work. And that's a huge shame. I've emailed a super in depth email to customer support. But color me disappointed. Honestly, if I end up having to return this, I will look into getting any other brand that has the headphone amp and 4 in/4 out for a similar-ish price. Terrible experience. Especially since the first time I downloaded their Control app my computer crashed and it took me an hour to figure out how to go into safemode and uninstall the app lol it's been a bad day for me and this 4i4.

Yeah just get a new one. I have one I use with a Dell and there are zero problems

 

[tedtan]

So I got the Gen 4 4i4 and this thing is a pain in my butt. It only will accept input from everything for a few moments, then no longer receives any signal. Not even from my computer. My computer sees the device, and it DOES work, for about 30 seconds. Then nothingness. But it's still powered on. And my computer still sees it, and it says its still sending signal. But the Scarlett just doesn't seem to do anything with that signal?

It also isn't recognized by the Focusrite Control. I've followed all of the help on the Focusrite Website. I don't know if mine is just junk, but it doesn't work. And that's a huge shame. I've emailed a super in depth email to customer support. But color me disappointed. Honestly, if I end up having to return this, I will look into getting any other brand that has the headphone amp and 4 in/4 out for a similar-ish price. Terrible experience. Especially since the first time I downloaded their Control app my computer crashed and it took me an hour to figure out how to go into safemode and uninstall the app lol it's been a bad day for me and this 4i4.

If you’re running it bus powered try plugging it into AC power; that’s almost always better. Try uninstalling and reinstalling the driver, too. Are you able to record with it beyond the 30 seconds or does the signal cut off in the DAW, too?

As for brands, they’re all about the same at a given price point. RME is solid and has great support, but costs a bit more new. You may be able to pick up a used interface at the same price, though. And even t higher price points, some are junk (for example, Antelope has solid hardware, but their drivers and customer support a shit).

 

[ThePIGI King]

If you’re running it bus powered try plugging it into AC power; that’s almost always better. Try uninstalling and reinstalling the driver, too. Are you able to record with it beyond the 30 seconds or does the signal cut off in the DAW, too?

As for brands, they’re all about the same at a given price point. RME is solid and has great support, but costs a bit more new. You may be able to pick up a used interface at the same price, though. And even t higher price points, some are junk (for example, Antelope has solid hardware, but their drivers and customer support a shit).

I'll try uninstalling and reinstalling.

No, the interface becomes completely useless, can't record, it doesn't even register that it's receiving input from the mic/ instrument.

I have it plugged in to AC as well. I'll un/re install and if it works ill post again letting you all know

 

[tedtan]

Probably an issue with the hardware, then. I’d send it back for an exchange. You should be safe to exchange it for another Focusrite 4i4. They have solid quality and good customer support.