Ron Thorn's take on CNC and timeframes etc. (interesting read)

[Drew]

We can agree to disagree. For me, for something that I consier art, it's as much the act of creation as it is the finished product. I don't consider computer programming an "art" the same way hand inlaying is.

For me, I guess it's the little imperfections that add value to it, that make it human. Then again, I'm not the sort of guy who'd want an eagle on his fretboard either.

The photocopier bit was an analogy, by the way, not a personal dig at your favorite luthier.

 

[HighGain510]

Word up.

 

[Drew]

It's not that I'd never buy a guitar with a CNC-cut inlay - it's just that, if I was paying for a premium inlay anyway, I'd also be willing to pay a premium to have it done by hand.

Then again, my taste in guitars is pretty utilitarian, function before form. My #1 criteria for an inlay is that it should allow me to know where I am on the fretboard, at a glance, without having to think, if somehow I get lost. I never really look at the front anyway, just the side dots - the CST taught me that - but still it's a security blanket thing.

But for all the functional aspects of building a guitar, then absolutely - a CNC machine is the way to go, in the hands of a competent luthier.

 

[skinhead]

Ron wrote up the post on the Gear Page, he doesn't post anything on Project Guitar Frank!

A quoted that and put it on the CNC vs handmade thread.

Cnc vs. Handmade - Project Guitar Forum

I deem your answer false

 

[HighGain510]

A quoted that and put it on the CNC vs handmade thread.

Cnc vs. Handmade - Project Guitar Forum

I deem your answer false

Ah, see but BILL posted that. He's not RON THORN... Bill just linked to the post Ron made. Ron didn't post it over there Frankie! I at you and deem you ultimately false!

 

[skinhead]

Ah, see but BILL posted that. He's not RON THORN... Bill just linked to the post Ron made. Ron didn't post it over there Frankie! I at you and deem you ultimately false!

I don't feel like fighting, I need some Can you administer some?

Yeah, but IIRC I didn't say that Ron posted on PG, I said that I read it over there. Just in case

 

[HighGain510]

I don't feel like fighting, I need some Can you administer some?

Yeah, but IIRC I didn't say that Ron posted on PG, I said that I read it over there. Just in case

I still you! Now, don't you have to get back to stalking Drew?

 

[ohio_eric]

Hey Frank and Matt get a room.

Anyway I totally agree with Thorn. CNC gives consistency and accuracy with are paramount if you want to be successful as a luthier.

 

[cadenhead]

In a former life, I used to program CNC machines for a custom cabinet shop.

It seems like some people think that it is a lot easier to do than it really is. Depending on the CNC and/or the program used, it can be a long process for complicated things like guitars and necks.

Thankfully there are programs to generate the CNC code. When I was first introduced to CNC's, I learned how to do very simple things using only raw code. Needless to say, it took weeks to get it to carve my name in a scrap pice of material.

Awesome post BTW.

 

[Naren]

Sweet post.

We can agree to disagree. For me, for something that I consier art, it's as much the act of creation as it is the finished product. I don't consider computer programming an "art" the same way hand inlaying is.

For me, I guess it's the little imperfections that add value to it, that make it human. Then again, I'm not the sort of guy who'd want an eagle on his fretboard either.

The photocopier bit was an analogy, by the way, not a personal dig at your favorite luthier.

I do consider computer programming an "art" the same way hand inlaying is and the same way novel or poem writing is.

So I guess we can agree to disagree.

Having seen the high quality of the Thorn inlays, I doubt anyone could do it that accurately without using a CNC. And I fail to see how using a CNC makes it "not handmade."

 

[budda]

great post matt, thanks

 

[Variant]

We can agree to disagree. For me, for something that I consier art, it's as much the act of creation as it is the finished product. I don't consider computer programming an "art" the same way hand inlaying is. :

You've obviously never spent 80 hours with a 3D modeling software meticulously honing a design. Sure, it ain't a Dremel tool, but a Dremel ain't a carving knife, and a carving knife ain't a paint brush, and a pant brush ain't a piece of charcoal. Eventually, that mentality reduces cave scrawlings made with rock as the only "appreciable" art. Sure, the digital medium can be misused and result in godawful products, but that's true of any medium. In my humble opinion as a designer, good ideas start in the head and end with good resultant product, what goes on in between is merely the vehicle between those two states of being.

 

[dpm]

^ absofuckinglutely, very well said

 

[skinhead]

It's a dilema IMO the inlaying.

I consider both guys inlay artist, the one that make it by hand and the one that make it with a CNC.

Because one it's an artist cutting the stuff, leveling, etc. And the other one has the balls to sit down hours to programme all the shit to cut the pieces for the inlay.

 

[El Caco]

Great post Matt.

I agree that it is still art, the CNC is just a tool.

I also think graphic design, graphic manipulation and CG is art. All of these use computers as their main tool in their art and art galleries obviously agree when they have displays for each of these artforms.

If pictures created completely from code are considered art surely inlays that only use the CNC for a small portion of the process and then require meticulous work by hand to complete can also be considered art.

 

[Stealthdjentstic]

BUMP for the newbies complaining about why they cant have a full blown custom from X luthier for under 2k

Thanks again matt

 

[Valennic]

BUMP for the newbies complaining about why they cant have a full blown custom from X luthier for under 2k

Thanks again matt

Only acceptable necro I think I've ever seen. Too many threads popping up on that lately

 

[HighGain510]

BUMP for the newbies complaining about why they cant have a full blown custom from X luthier for under 2k

Thanks again matt

No problem, Ron is one of the guys in the industry who REALLY knows his stuff (engineering and CNC background + long-time guitar builder), so typically when he tells me something regarding build process I take his word for it. When he's able to drop a nugget of wisdom like this, I felt it was worth sharing with the community.

P.S. Mods - Might consider making it a sticky as it IS a question/issue that comes up often, would be nice not to have to bump it back to life to explain to folks!

 

[TemjinStrife]

This needs to be stickied alongside Darren's "Why Guitars Cost What They Do."

 

[MaxOfMetal]

No problem, Ron is one of the guys in the industry who REALLY knows his stuff (engineering and CNC background + long-time guitar builder), so typically when he tells me something regarding build process I take his word for it. When he's able to drop a nugget of wisdom like this, I felt it was worth sharing with the community.

P.S. Mods - Might consider making it a sticky as it IS a question/issue that comes up often, would be nice not to have to bump it back to life to explain to folks!

Done.

This needs to be stickied alongside Darren's "Why Guitars Cost What They Do."

And done.