So another guitar maker has lost their mind?

[BlacKat Guitars]

Seriously? Talk about shitty and unprofessional. You're not building guitars out of the kindness of your heart, someone is paying you. If you can't take the heat, don't be a custom builder.

I'm taking heat quite well and currently work approximately 14 hours a day (including saturdays and sundays) or more because situation requires that. However if I decide to take 2 hours off and go with my daughter to the playground, I'd be really pissed off if my customer would start lecturing me that I'm wasting my time doing this or that instead of working on his build.

Edit: To make my point of view clearer so people don't see me as big prick:
Customer is paying and he has the right to receive his ordered instrument in reasonable timeframe but it's my task to manage my time in such way that I can deliver.

It also means that when something happens that could potentially affect my work it also shouldn't be customer's concern. Baby born, moving to new house, whole family died in nuclear explosion? Not a good excuse for delayed build and not customer's concern, he's paying and I should do everything I can to deliver.

Again, I'm not advocating fb rant from this thread. I just hate this kind of attitude:

Exactly, I don't understand why people arnt more pissed about this, its obvious he's sitting there watching for any comment to pop up to be able to react to it instantly, while the tools sit there collecting non guitar build dust...

Maybe it's a touchy subject for me because I spend so much time in shop myself, but even though ViK mentioned my friends from Skervesen in his rant and I find it unfair (so although I like him, it puts me on "the other side"), but he seems like hard working guy and even if he wastes few hours on FB from time to time, he is also probably working on guitars most of his time already. Telling him to work more is as rude as the rant that started this discussion.

It's not that much different from going in discussion with mods on discussion boards about their work (why did you ban me, why didn't you ban him etc).

i dont really like to comment on stuff like this, but this comment right here made me automatically think of you as an insanely massive prick. no matter what side your on, i agree with max. that is VERY unprofessional.

It was a joke, I guess I should have put more of these:

Probably wrote it all wrong because English is not my first language.

 

[flint757]

I had 3 separate projects to do at work last Friday and I also had to take inventory. Late morning, early afternoon a man came in pushing his weight a bit because he was going to 'spend' a lot of money. He was rude and bossy, but ultimately we had to assume he was a serious customer even if it meant a few hours lost. I personally wanted to tell him to go .... off because he had an air of arrogance about him, was wasting what little time in the day I had and honestly felt like a tire kicker (window watcher). We just grin and bear it though, sometimes there's a fish on the line and sometimes there isn't. I ended up having to work 5hrs after work to catch up.

Moral of the story is even when the customer is a prick you pretend he isn't and either indulge or at least pretend to indulge.

No customers, no revenue, no business.

 

[Watty]

It was a joke, I guess I should have put more of these:

Probably wrote it all wrong because English is not my first language.

I get that it was meant to be a joke, but please realize that it had nothing to do with the language issue and everything to do with the fact that sarcasm (especially when worded "correctly") does NOT translate into text.

Moral of the story is even when the customer is a prick you pretend he isn't and either indulge or at least pretend to indulge.

No customers, no revenue, no business.

Amen.

And to the time table issue, I think it's less about the delay and more about the apparent lack of care associated with it. Not only a Vik issue, but how hard is it really to put out a status update each week (per instrument) with:

1) Current task being worked on.
2) Next task on the list.
3) Tentative ETA based on 1 and 2.

Even if it falls behind the ETA, at least you know it's getting worked on and is not sitting for lack of the luthier's focus or his decision to work on other builds in the cue that may or may not have been given priority. Now, obviously Vik could be doing this through email (as could others) but given the general growing discontent with the progress from multiple parties, I'd wager that's not the case.

Budding luthiers take note that we're more concerned with knowing what's going on that (and potentially getting our instruments slightly late) than being in the dark until the situation escalates into discontent with the builder...especially given what BlacKat jokingly notes above.

 

[Choop]

I had 3 separate projects to do at work last Friday and I also had to take inventory. Late morning, early afternoon a man came in pushing his weight a bit because he was going to 'spend' a lot of money. He was rude and bossy, but ultimately we had to assume he was a serious customer even if it meant a few hours lost. I personally wanted to tell him to go .... off because he had an air of arrogance about him, was wasting what little time in the day I had and honestly felt like a tire kicker (window watcher). We just grin and bear it though, sometimes there's a fish on the line and sometimes there isn't. I ended up having to work 5hrs after work to catch up.

Moral of the story is even when the customer is a prick you pretend he isn't and either indulge or at least pretend to indulge.

No customers, no revenue, no business.

Are you your own boss? I think everybody already knows the whole "the customer is always right" rhetoric.

 

[abandonist]

We had an 8-top call and try to make a reservation for 10:30 on Friday night. We normally start to shut down at 10. I told them this, but that I would be open to keeping the restaurant open for them since they're a large party and we could make a couple hundred dollars off them. The woman making the reservation then asked about our tasting menu (6 courses, the most expensive option) with a wine pairing, so I explained that evening's menu and some of the wines we had selected. She said they'd like to do that, there might even be 10 of them, and would be there promptly at 10:30. I said that's great and was really happy through service.

They proceeded to show up at 10:30, wait another 40 minutes for 2 stragglers, and only ordered a couple cocktails and plates. No tasting, no wine pairing, total ticket was around $250. If they had done what they said it would have been nearly 1000. I was pretty pissed. At the end, they asked to talk to me about the restaurant, and our ideas. I bit it and said we'd always stay open if they had a party of 6 or more. It's the hospitality business - that's what we do.

However, I once had a customer at the bar say "faggot" with anger behind it, and I promptly told him his meal and drinks were on the house and that he should leave.

Anyway, the point is that everything is circumstantial when it comes to customers.

 

[BlacKat Guitars]

I get that it was meant to be a joke, but please realize that it had nothing to do with the language issue and everything to do with the fact that sarcasm (especially when worded "correctly") does NOT translate into text.

Language issue is actually a joke too (referencing ViKs language barrer raised earlier in this thread). Maybe I'm just to sleepy and my jokes suck. Still better than hitman joke .

Regarding my customer/builder mutual respect and overall relationship. I had one angry customer (delayed order) who was pissed off with delay and decided to subscribe me to 20 gay related newsletters and tried to place ad on craigslist that I want to star in gay porn (as "Tomasz Dicksucker", nice!).

I can be very effective with finding out identity of people who try to do something not nice to me online and this time it was easy too. It was first time where I really wanted to just send customers deposit back and forget about whole thing. In the end I did nothing. Shipped his guitar, kept being polite on e-mails.

Also if you think that you have to organize builders time, it means that you've probably chosen wrong builder.

 

[Watty]

However, I once had a customer at the bar say "faggot" with anger behind it, and I promptly told him his meal and drinks were on the house and that he should leave.

Anyway, the point is that everything is circumstantial when it comes to customers.

To the first; well done sir.

To the second; I can agree with that.

 

[thrsher]

for me personally, this is how i feel and it shouldn't be like this either

like ive stated, im just your average joe player in an average local band. i feel like if i complain too much to vik or "bother" him because my build isnt getting done or worked on, that work wont get done on my build. i feel like i have to tip toe around and mind my P's and Q's and thats not right. at the end of the day, my concern is my business between Vik and I and i am owed a certain level of service. im not here to question his personal life. sitting back for 26 months now, i have never felt like my order with him was a priority or of any importance especially now i feel as though his head should be down and just complete the build. i personal like his business model. the forum updates (which more or less has been abandoned for a good year now id say) i also think building a guitar in a week was a BAD idea. you built a guitar in a week and im still siting back 26 months waiting ( fully paid) for no real good reason and just watch more and more builds get completed. its not my fault your guitars are pulling alot more money these days than maybe whati paid and dont get me wrong, i still paid more than i have spent on any guitar to date. at what point do i get the customer service and attention i am owed as a customer. and truly, i really don't badger the guy, ive sent him a total of 5 emails the whole time id say with the occasional chat on FB. the only time i would email would be to get an update and i really on started addressing concern for a lack of attention to my build towards the end of last year.

 

[flint757]

Are you your own boss? I think everybody already knows the whole "the customer is always right" rhetoric.

No, I'm contract so whomever I'm working for at the time is my boss so to speak, but a lot of my work is with their customers.

People certainly should know that by now, but several posts in this thread lead me to believe otherwise.

...
Anyway, the point is that everything is circumstantial when it comes to customers.

Fair enough. You handled it very well either way and that is the main point to take away from it. Generally, in my experience, the customer is only wrong when he is costing you money be it theft, scaring off customers, ruining reputation, etc. otherwise you indulge.

 

[Hollowway]

We had an 8-top call and try to make a reservation for 10:30 on Friday night. We normally start to shut down at 10. I told them this, but that I would be open to keeping the restaurant open for them since they're a large party and we could make a couple hundred dollars off them. The woman making the reservation then asked about our tasting menu (6 courses, the most expensive option) with a wine pairing, so I explained that evening's menu and some of the wines we had selected. She said they'd like to do that, there might even be 10 of them, and would be there promptly at 10:30. I said that's great and was really happy through service.

They proceeded to show up at 10:30, wait another 40 minutes for 2 stragglers, and only ordered a couple cocktails and plates. No tasting, no wine pairing, total ticket was around $250. If they had done what they said it would have been nearly 1000. I was pretty pissed. At the end, they asked to talk to me about the restaurant, and our ideas. I bit it and said we'd always stay open if they had a party of 6 or more. It's the hospitality business - that's what we do.

However, I once had a customer at the bar say "faggot" with anger behind it, and I promptly told him his meal and drinks were on the house and that he should leave.

Anyway, the point is that everything is circumstantial when it comes to customers.

Man, I totally agree with everything you wrote. That is exactly how I would have felt/handled it. That's incredibly rude for that party of 8 to do that, and people like that piss me off. But like you say, you gotta suck it up. And I am so totally coming in for the tasting menu if I can get out to that coast.

 

[narad]

Moral of the story is even when the customer is a prick you pretend he isn't and either indulge or at least pretend to indulge.

And that's precisely why Vik Guitars probably isn't going to be getting any orders from Robbins Guitars anytime soon.

 

[Watty]

And that's precisely why Vik Guitars probably isn't going to be getting any orders from Robbins Guitars anytime soon.

Did you mean something different by this? I'm pretty sure any luthier would just build herself whatever guitar she wanted.

In the end, Tyler won't have taken any business away from Vik as he himself did that more effectively than any external party could have.

for me personally, this is how i feel and it shouldn't be like this either

like ive stated, im just your average joe player in an average local band. i feel like if i complain too much to vik or "bother" him because my build isnt getting done or worked on, that work wont get done on my build. i feel like i have to tip toe around and mind my P's and Q's and thats not right. at the end of the day, my concern is my business between Vik and I and i am owed a certain level of service. im not here to question his personal life. sitting back for 26 months now, i have never felt like my order with him was a priority or of any importance especially now i feel as though his head should be down and just complete the build. i personal like his business model. the forum updates (which more or less has been abandoned for a good year now id say) i also think building a guitar in a week was a BAD idea. you built a guitar in a week and im still siting back 26 months waiting ( fully paid) for no real good reason and just watch more and more builds get completed. its not my fault your guitars are pulling alot more money these days than maybe whati paid and dont get me wrong, i still paid more than i have spent on any guitar to date. at what point do i get the customer service and attention i am owed as a customer. and truly, i really don't badger the guy, ive sent him a total of 5 emails the whole time id say with the occasional chat on FB. the only time i would email would be to get an update and i really on started addressing concern for a lack of attention to my build towards the end of last year.

And I feel for you man, it's not a good situation to be in and I hope that he's able to crank your guitar out soon. Especially given that it seems he's currently working on finishing up a run that was put in a significant amount of time after yours.

 

[abandonist]

for me personally, this is how i feel and it shouldn't be like this either

like ive stated, im just your average joe player in an average local band. i feel like if i complain too much to vik or "bother" him because my build isnt getting done or worked on, that work wont get done on my build. i feel like i have to tip toe around and mind my P's and Q's and thats not right. at the end of the day, my concern is my business between Vik and I and i am owed a certain level of service. im not here to question his personal life. sitting back for 26 months now, i have never felt like my order with him was a priority or of any importance especially now i feel as though his head should be down and just complete the build. i personal like his business model. the forum updates (which more or less has been abandoned for a good year now id say) i also think building a guitar in a week was a BAD idea. you built a guitar in a week and im still siting back 26 months waiting ( fully paid) for no real good reason and just watch more and more builds get completed. its not my fault your guitars are pulling alot more money these days than maybe whati paid and dont get me wrong, i still paid more than i have spent on any guitar to date. at what point do i get the customer service and attention i am owed as a customer. and truly, i really don't badger the guy, ive sent him a total of 5 emails the whole time id say with the occasional chat on FB. the only time i would email would be to get an update and i really on started addressing concern for a lack of attention to my build towards the end of last year.

This is why I've selected the 2 custom builders I've used very carefully. I know delays are going to happen, and the one I'm waiting on is a bit behind, but I'm talking a couple months, not 26. That's just unacceptable. Famous dude wants one of your builds? Of course you're going to bump that up the queue. But over a year of delays? Not ok. I'd be asking for a couple hundred bucks refunded.

 

[darren]

However, I once had a customer at the bar say "faggot" with anger behind it, and I promptly told him his meal and drinks were on the house and that he should leave.

What restaurant do you work at? If i'm ever down your way, i'd come by and have a big meal and leave you a big tip based on this alone. Well done.

 

[User Name]

now im 100% sketched out by EVER trying to get a custom guitar built

 

[Watty]

now im 100% sketched out by EVER trying to get a custom guitar built

Don't be too put off by these situations, you just need to be smart about your initial contact and how you feel about their competency and accountability.

 

[thrsher]

now im 100% sketched out by EVER trying to get a custom guitar built

delays are inevitable other than carvin, no company as meet there times by witinh even 6 months other than kxk. when he did 7s short run, he gave a 6 month estimate and hit that pretty much spot on.

 

[narad]

Did you mean something different by this? I'm pretty sure any luthier would just build herself whatever guitar she wanted..

It was a joke but trying to emphasize that all this "customer is always right" type of talk is a little misplaced when the people he's ranting at are the luthiers who copy designs. Those are the people he's "mistreating" - not his customers. Feel free to judge or not place an order, but it's poor PR Vik's guilty of, not poor customer service. And I'm liking all these build updates all the drama seems to have prompted!

 

[MaxOfMetal]

It was a joke but trying to emphasize that all this "customer is always right" type of talk is a little misplaced when the people he's ranting at are the luthiers who copy designs. Those are the people he's "mistreating" - not his customers. Feel free to judge or not place an order, but it's poor PR Vik's guilty of, not poor customer service. And I'm liking all these build updates all the drama seems to have prompted!

Have you read thrshr's posts?

 

[abandonist]

What restaurant do you work at? If i'm ever down your way, i'd come by and have a big meal and leave you a big tip based on this alone. Well done.

I own a place called The Owl in Greenville, SC.

We've won some awards (Best Chef's America! WTF???) and gotten some press, but we're just a couple jerks trying their best to do a really good job.



I'll say that the custom I ordered from OAF was delivery promptly on time, and with extensive contact. Tom was great.