The attempt to destroy the nation state

[Drew]

Well, you can't determine that without mind-reading. But I don't think the next best thing is to just assume racism... barring any "mitigating circumstances"

I constantly see terms like "racist dogwhistle" and "alt-lite" being used by bloggers, journos, vloggers, etc, in order to lump people in with the alt-right/racists in leiu of actually engaging their arguments. Comes across as very "racist until proven otherwise" to me.

I get it. Being concerned about illegal immigration technically means the person has something idealogically in common with literally 100% of KKK members. I know.





But brown skin isn't the only thing tying those countries together.

In an alternate universe where the only thing that changed was that Sweden and Mexico swapped geographical locations, education programs and murder rates, there would be more talk about Swedish immigration. And we'd be regionalists instead of racists I guess.

...yet, you also missed about a dozen solid chances to deny racism being a primary motivator of your beliefs. And, considering those arguments are the same ones being used by racists to justify their beliefs ("I want to preserve American - read, white - culture!") I think the onus is on you to clearly articulate how your views differ from white supremacists, because right now I'm not seeing any daylight between your arguments and theirs.

Now, for the third time... Are you a member of the Swedish Democrats?

 

[MFB]

That's not simon whatever his name was

 

[Randy]

...yet, you also missed about a dozen solid chances to deny racism being a primary motivator of your beliefs. And, considering those arguments are the same ones being used by racists to justify their beliefs ("I want to preserve American - read, white - culture!") I think the onus is on you to clearly articulate how your views differ from white supremacists, because right now I'm not seeing any daylight between your arguments and theirs.

I'm not especially emotionally invested in this conversation because even if someone admits to being racist, what do you do? I find racism to be an especially abhorrent, ignorant outlook, and certainly one that effects how seriously I take someone's arguments but outside of that, it's not like anybody's going to jail over it.

Anyway, to your point, I think the bolded here pretty much answers your questions...

In an alternate universe where the only thing that changed was that Sweden and Mexico swapped geographical locations, education programs and murder rates, there would be more talk about Swedish immigration.

 

[Drew]

I'm not especially emotionally invested in this conversation because even if someone admits to being racist, what do you do? I find racism to be an especially abhorrent, ignorant outlook, and certainly one that effects how seriously I take someone's arguments but outside of that, it's not like anybody's going to jail over it.

Anyway, to your point, I think the bolded here pretty much answers your questions...

I guess, when push comes to shove, wanting racists to be openly accountable for their views, to own them honestly, and to not be hypocritical is probably a waste of time, since it doesn't really change anything, does it?

Heck, the poor bastard probably honestly believes his desire to keep Sweden immigrant free is about "preserving Nordic culture," and not because he hates brown people, poor fool.

 

[wat]

...yet, you also missed about a dozen solid chances to deny racism being a primary motivator of your beliefs. And, considering those arguments are the same ones being used by racists to justify their beliefs ("I want to preserve American - read, white - culture!") I think the onus is on you to clearly articulate how your views differ from white supremacists, because right now I'm not seeing any daylight between your arguments and theirs.

Now, for the third time... Are you a member of the Swedish Democrats?

That was the OP, not me. I've already said how I feel about "racist until proven otherwise"

I guess, when push comes to shove, wanting racists to be openly accountable for their views, to own them honestly, and to not be hypocritical is probably a waste of time, since it doesn't really change anything, does it?

Heck, the poor bastard probably honestly believes his desire to keep Sweden immigrant free is about "preserving Nordic culture," and not because he hates brown people, poor fool.

Idk about him/her, but I personally don't see anything particularly wrong with someone who lives in a more or less culturally and ethnically homogenous society being concerned or even upset at the notion of an ethnic & cultural demographic shift being forced on them. And tax currency being used to house and feed the newcomers when they fail to assimilate.

Considering how mass immigration is working out in many cities across Europe, jumping straight to "hates brown people" comes off as a little un-nuanced, and maybe a bit hysterical.

 

[Drew]

That was the OP, not me. I've already said how I feel about "racist until proven otherwise"



Idk about him/her, but I personally don't see anything particularly wrong with someone who lives in a more or less culturally and ethnically homogenous society being concerned or even upset at the notion of an ethnic & cultural demographic shift being forced on them. And tax currency being used to house and feed the newcomers when they fail to assimilate.

Considering how mass immigration is working out in many cities across Europe, jumping straight to "hates brown people" comes off as a little un-nuanced, and maybe a bit hysterical.

No, but I'd say parroting the same talking points as an openly racist political party, on the other hand... That's not hysterical, that's pure cynicism and distaste.

As far as your posts... again, if you're going to use the same terms and make the same arguments as white nationalist groups... Well, if it looks like a rose and smells like a rose... You're certainly not doing yourself any favors, and if you don't want to get called a racist, then maybe not using the same arguments as racists would be a great place to start.

You say "racist until proven otherwise," like that's the starting point here... But it's not. We're starting from neutral, and then once you start using the language and arguments of white nationalists to condemn immigration, well, yeah, you've given us some evidence that you're racist, so at that point the onus is on you to demonstrate that you're not.

 

[Andromalia]

Idk about him/her, but I personally don't see anything particularly wrong with someone who lives in a more or less culturally and ethnically homogenous society being concerned or even upset at the notion of an ethnic & cultural demographic shift being forced on them

It would take hundreds of times the current immigration rates *and* intercultural marriages to start an "ethnic shift". In France we had a lot of immigration in the 60es to man our factories, guess what, we still have enough white people to have a racist party going in second at the presidential election.
The "big replacement" theory is completely woven from thin air to propagate fear to the uneducated.

 

[Jason B]

Drew and Wat may have to settle for agreeing that facts are racist.