The Carvin / Kiesel thread

[Hollowway]

Add another $250. There's no 7 string non-multiscale, so it's $500 above the base bass.

Oh really? I assumed that since the only 7 is multi that when they listed “7 string” that also meant multi. If it’s like you’re saying then it’s basically back to the $1800 base price. I’ll probably sit it out (for the bass), since the finish discounts aren’t tempting enough to make this doable.

 

[spudmunkey]

Being even with the base price makes it the best value in the run. Every other model is more than the base model. If you wanted metallic crackle, or color shift splatter, you're saving $400.

If that is make-or break, it's worth confirming, but that's how I understand it.

 

[r3tr0sp3ct1v3]

So 150 for any crackle. on top of the 1300. No thanks

 

[spudmunkey]

So 150 for any crackle. on top of the 1300. No thanks

What? No All but the color-shift crackle are included in the base price. The $1300 is $150 over the base price. That's what I meant, if that's what you're referring to.

 

[Hollowway]

Being even with the base price makes it the best value in the run. Every other model is more than the base model. If you wanted metallic crackle, or color shift splatter, you're saving $400.

If that is make-or break, it's worth confirming, but that's how I understand it.

Yeah, it’s a good deal, but I am not particularly interested in the stage 1 finishes, so I should probably just do a regular build. I really want just an understated finish, given the craziness of the instrument itself. I actually tried to do a build on the app, but there’s no total until after you put in all your CC info, and I chickened our in case the “next” screen takes me into “no refunds” land.

 

[Seabeast2000]

So I thought SS frets were default these days? I noticed what look like a lot of spec builds in GIS that don't have them.

 

[spudmunkey]

So I thought SS frets were default these days? I noticed what look like a lot of spec builds in GIS that don't have them.

You are probably just seeing mostly Jumbo, right? Medium Jumbo are standard, and they don't list the standard specs; only the upgrades. Kinda like how if it doesn't list a body or neck wood, you would assume it's the base alder body and maple neck.... not that they aren't wood.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

You are probably just seeing mostly Jumbo, right? Medium Jumbo are standard, and they don't list the standard specs; only the upgrades. Kinda like how if it doesn't list a body or neck wood, you would assume it's the base alder body and maple neck.... not that they aren't wood.

Several list "Stainless Med-Jumbo".

Doesn't seem to matter what the model is. There are Vaders, Theos, Crescents, CCTs, Osiris, SCBs, etc.

 

[spudmunkey]

Several list "Stainless Med-Jumbo".

Doesn't seem to matter what the model is. There are Vaders, Theos, Crescents, CCTs, Osiris, SCBs, etc.

You are exactly right. At1st thought that maybe these are older builds from before the change to standard stainless but, nope. Even the newest entry lists it.

Given historical accuracy of the in-stock store, I believe it's just more inconsistency than a shift away from stainless...but that's just a gut feeling.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

You are exactly right. At1st thought that maybe these are older builds from before the change to standard stainless but, nope. Even the newest entry lists it.

Given historical accuracy of the in-stock store, I believe it's just more inconsistency than a shift away from stainless...but that's just a gut feeling.

Aren't some of these returned/unpaid customer builds? Maybe some chose nickel silver frets.

 

[spudmunkey]

Aren't some of these returned/unpaid customer builds? Maybe some chose nickel silver frets.

Some are, yes. But historically, the in stock store doesn't show the standard specs. It would not show Chrome hardware, for example, or a white pick guard on the delos. So if its listing stainless steel medium jumbo, I'm not exactly sure why that is even listed on a model which has that has its standard spec.

There's probably some hazy crossover between some older examples that are in the store from before the stainless steel switch, where nickel frets were the standard and would not have been listed… but there is a link to be able to sort by newest first, and the newest one at the top of the list shows stainless medium jumbo...which doesn't really make sense.

They do still have at least one, possibly two, models that come with nickel frets standard. The Andy James is one. I believe there is a second that I am forgetting about….

 

[kisielk]

I decided to jump on it and get one. I've been aching for an 8 string with a tremolo for a long time and this seems to be a good way to get one that's not a Kahler, and I'm not too keen of the aesthetics of the Schecter Hellraiser C-8. Ordered a Z8X with the colour fade splatter.. it's going to be my first Kiesel so it will be interesting to try one out. I played them at NAMM a few years back and was pretty impressed with the feel and construction.

 

[spudmunkey]

That's the finish I'm most excited to see finished up on a guitar.

 

[Tuned]

sorry if I'm misplacing this, but if I get it right there's no such thread in the 7str. division

I have heard or read that Kiesel don't offer Floyd Rose on 7-srings. Today I watched a factory tour (with Jeff and TTK) and then browsed through the site - of all the 7-strings with trems none had a FR. What's that, a statement? Like, really really no FR7 whatsoever? like, just when I started thinking a Kiesel?

 

[KnightBrolaire]

sorry if I'm misplacing this, but if I get it right there's no such thread in the 7str. division

I have heard or read that Kiesel don't offer Floyd Rose on 7-srings. Today I watched a factory tour (with Jeff and TTK) and then browsed through the site - of all the 7-strings with trems none had a FR. What's that, a statement? Like, really really no FR7 whatsoever? like, just when I started thinking a Kiesel?

Only one they still put FRs on is the JB200 7 string afaik. There are floyd loaded kiesels floating around on reverb and ebay relatively regularly

 

[Albake21]

They stopped selling 7 strings with Floyd Roses last year. Jeff said they weren't selling enough of them and all of their artists preferred the Hipshot trem over the Floyd

 

[kisielk]

That's the finish I'm most excited to see finished up on a guitar.

I think it will really match my fusion aesthetic. It's a pretty unique looking finish in the photos so I hope it looks just as good in person!

 

[spudmunkey]

sorry if I'm misplacing this, but if I get it right there's no such thread in the 7str. division

I have heard or read that Kiesel don't offer Floyd Rose on 7-srings. Today I watched a factory tour (with Jeff and TTK) and then browsed through the site - of all the 7-strings with trems none had a FR. What's that, a statement? Like, really really no FR7 whatsoever? like, just when I started thinking a Kiesel?

While they use the OFR on 6-strings, when they offered 7-string "floyds", they never used the OFR due to the string spacing. They started with licensed trems (no word, AFAIK, on who made them). Then, they switched to the Original 1000 series, again, due to the string spacing.

The reasons that Kiesel have given publicly (which is all we can really go by outside of conjecture):

1. They were an imported-from-korea unit, and there were occasional quality issues.
2. They were an imported-from-korea unit, and Kiesel says they make an effort when possible to source US-made components for major components like bridges.
3. Their signature artists that would have maybe used a Floyd moved over to the Hipshot bridge.
4. They have made a concerted effort to streamline their operations. One of those ways is to reduce the number of individual CNC programs. By removing a bridge option, that dramatically cuts the number or programs. Having more programs reduced efficiency but also increases the possibility of errors.
5. Kiesel didn't see a very good ROI to re-design their guitars to work as well with the different string spacing of the OFR, the only Floyd they'd want to use...and they didn't want to make their guitars with this different string spacing, anyway.

Some other possibilities that they likely wouldn't share, but could also help explain, if true (but for which there's no evidence of):

1. Kiesel needed to commit to certain volume with Hipshot to retain their exclusive design modification or pricing, and the only real way to do that was to jettison the Floyd to reduce the number of trem options, so that anyone who wanted a trem would have to pick the Hipshot.
2. OK, so sure...there are lots of guitars with Floyds out there...but unless someone has access to their books, there really isn't a way to know if Kiesel's customers are buying that many 7-string Floyds. Perhaps they really didn't sell enough to their own customers to invest in minimum orders from suppliers, or to just survive the CNC program culling. While 7-string Floyds may account for 35% of all worldwide 7-string guitar sales, they might have only been 10% of Kiesel's, for example.

They also removed the Floyd as an option from the 6-string Carved-top models (the CT6/CS3/CS6) and the Solo...but then it IS an option on their brand-spankinest-new Theos 6-string model...so at least it does appear that they aren't "anti-Floyd" except where it makes sense for them to be.

Only one they still put FRs on is the JB200 7 string afaik.

The 7-string JB207 has been discontinued since January, 2018. it was only around for a year, i think. That same month was hard for 7-string fans...also discontinued: X227, Ultra V7, DC727, HH7, and then the CT7 and SH7 in July of that year.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

The old licensed units from the Carvin days were Ping built, as per markings on the underside.

 

[spudmunkey]

The old licensed units from the Carvin days were Ping built, as per markings on the underside.

Ahh, good to know. I know that was a rumor, but didn't know they were marked. I believe that's who made their old non-locking tuners, back when their locking option was Sperzel, too.

By most accounts, they seemed to be "better than average" for a licensed Floyd, and there was at least one person I remember from the forum who changed his DC727 or DC747 to an OFR and said it wasn't worth the effort as it wasn't that much better to make up for the work needed and the cost.