Unpopular Opinions

[spawnofthesith]

How? Explain this, please.

I've tried modellers in a number of configurations. I personally wouldn't be happy live using one without a into a power amp (preferably tube) into an actual cabinet

then I'd need a foot controller. If pressed I could probably reduce my pedalboard down and use modeller FX, but there's some pedals crucial to my rig that I'm not going to get out of any of the modelelrs (specifically the functionality and features of my rc-500)

So yeah, modeller, power amp, gotta get a rack for that, pedalboard, midi controller, and then a cabinet still.... that is not easier or more convenient than an amp/cab/pedalboard that I can load in/out in one trip with my guitar on my back. At best is about the same

Running direct is going to be a hard no from me (personally) unless I'm in an emergency situation that requires it. And despite always hearing on TGP that "soundguys want silent stages these days" that's total bullshit, outside maybe their P&W gigs.


I think I said this earlier in the thread, but if you are encountering soundguys that are genuinely acting like micing a cab is an inconvenience or more challenging than a direct signal, I'd suggest booking different venues.



YMMV on all of this of course

 

[Shask]

Part of the reason people buy modellers is precisely because they dont have a lot of room for equipment, cmon now.

A desk is not a lot of room, lol. I am not talking about a corner cubicle here. A 3" by 2" would probably do it.

If space was that low, I would probably buy, or build, monitor stands.

 

[budda]

A desk is not a lot of room, lol. I am not talking about a corner cubicle here. A 3" by 2" would probably do it.

If space was that low, I would probably buy, or build, monitor stands.

(Taking the opportunity of a typo lol) a desk for ants!

 

[Shask]

(Taking the opportunity of a typo lol) a desk for ants!

Oh yeah, lol. You can see how often I use measurement labels, lol.

3' x 2'. You could also build up. I used to have a desk where I built extra shelves up above the monitor, so I had additional space above the monitor to put my speakers. Build a TT shaped contraption that sits on top of the desk.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

I personally wouldn't be happy live using one without a into a power amp (preferably tube) into an actual cabinet

That's probably the biggest sticking point, guitarists just don't know enough about live sound equipment to quickly, efficiently, and economically drop "real" cabs or tube power. On average at least.

It's a different world and I totally understand not wanting to go down that rabbit hole. It's dry, boring, and not the least bit glamorous.

But yeah, pro audio can totally do that big thumping guitar cab thing now, and it's gotten so much cheaper and lighter that it's finally making sense.

Most folks who aren't convinced have only tried fairly small, entry-level PAs not setup for specific instruments.

 

[budda]

My ceiling is barely 6ft, “up” is only so available.

I think a decent chunk of people who run modellers probably have/rent an apartment where their gear space is pretty limited and less is better. A pair of 7” monitors is probably overkill in a lot of situations.

 

[Shask]

My ceiling is barely 6ft, “up” is only so available.

I think a decent chunk of people who run modellers probably have/rent an apartment where their gear space is pretty limited and less is better. A pair of 7” monitors is probably overkill in a lot of situations.

So cut the legs of the desk down to 4" and sit on the floor

If the ceilings are that low I would probably mount them to the ceiling, like how speakers are mounted in schools and such.

 

[budda]

So cut the legs of the desk down to 4" and sit on the floor

If the ceilings are that low I would probably mount them to the ceiling, like how speakers are mounted in schools and such.

Depends if theres something to mount to over the desk, no? Either way, my point is not everyone is gonna run big or expensive monitors. One of the awesome things about current gen is *they will still sound incredible*.

 

[Emperoff]

5" monitors are not that big and fit in most desks. You can have good 5" monitors that outperform bigger ones. The difference in size between a 5" and a 6'5" monitor is massive, but the difference in tone isn't.

Guitarists are cut by the "bigger is better" mantra and rarely ever ask about what would be the proper monitor size for their rooms. Most people in audio recording boards have this figured out (and there's guides that you can follow). As @budda pointed out, 7" monitors are overkill in most situations (specially if you don't have enough room behind your desk).

 

[Shask]

Depends if theres something to mount to over the desk, no? Either way, my point is not everyone is gonna run big or expensive monitors. One of the awesome things about current gen is *they will still sound incredible*.

You could just use anchor bolts regardless of what there is to mount to.

They would sound OK, but still weak compared to something bigger.

 

[Shask]

5" monitors are not that big and fit in most desks. You can have good 5" monitors that outperform bigger ones. The difference in size between a 5" and a 6'5" monitor is massive, but the difference in tone isn't.

Guitarists are cut by the "bigger is better" mantra and rarely ever ask about what would be the proper monitor size for their rooms. Most people in audio recording boards have this figured out (and there's guides that you can follow). As @budda pointed out, 7" monitors are overkill in most situations (specially if you don't have enough room behind your desk).

Smaller monitors still have a higher frequency cutoff, and you would notice that lack of low end. You can't really get around that.

There are other options though. For me, I have 6.5" monitors, but I pair them with a 10" sub that sits under the desk. That helps overcome the low end loss by having smaller monitors.

 

[budda]

Something something room correction

 

[Shask]

Something something room correction

Yes, if your goal is recording. I am talking about for the enjoyment of playing guitar. Feeling the sound as you play is part of that enjoyment. For that feel, you need low end.

Everyone gets playing for enjoyment confused with playing for recording, and playing for live sound.

 

[Emperoff]

Smaller monitors still have a higher frequency cutoff, and you would notice that lack of low end. You can't really get around that.

There are other options though. For me, I have 6.5" monitors, but I pair them with a 10" sub that sits under the desk. That helps overcome the low end loss by having smaller monitors.

lmao, if I put 6.5" monitors + subwoofer in my apartment the police would be here day in, day out.

That's the point I'm getting at. "Lack of low end" is entirely room dependant. I don't miss any low end. Low frequencies are omnidirectional and bounce everywhere. Having bigger monitors and a subwoofer in a small room would only create a metric ton of room nodes that would overemphasize low end and cause a lot of frequency issues.

Then again you could counter that with appropriate room correction, which would cost a small fortune. The question is. Is it worth it? To do a 2.1 setup in the price/quality bracket of my current monitors I'd probably be hovering over 4k. And then I'll have to add the cost of room treatment.

For just having fun playing guitar 1h a day at best, I think I'm perfectly happy with a good set of 5" monitors. Bigger is not always better.

 

[Shask]

lmao, if I put 6,5" monitors in a subwoofer in my apartment the police would be here day in, day out.

That's the point I'm getting at. "Lack of low end" is entirely room dependant. Low frequencies are omnidirectional and bounce everywhere. Having bigger monitors and a subwoofer in a small room would only create a metric ton of room nodes that would overemphasize low end and cause a lot of frequency issues.

Then again you could counter that with appropriate room correction, which would cost a small fortune. The question is. Is it worht it to you?

The system does have a volume control, lol.

That is one reason I no longer live in apartments. I dont want to be near anyone.

Yes, it can get a little crazy sometimes, but that is part of the enjoyment. If you aren't chugging to make your room rattle, are you really even playing?

 

[Emperoff]

The system does have a volume control, lol.

Have you ever heard of the fletcher-munson curves? We humans perceive the low end much stronger at lower decibel levels, and our ears "built in EQ" flattens up the louder the sound source gets. So yeah, I'd have an overaly bass-heavy system at low volume. No thanks.

That is one reason I no longer live in apartments. I dont want to be near anyone.

Then acknowledge that you can't be categorical when not everyone has the same space to work with. Smaller setups work better for smaller rooms. It's not that difficult. The sound waves bounce faster so the build up of low end frequencies is also faster. Having too much low end will overpower everything in a small room.

Yes, it can get a little crazy sometimes, but that is part of the enjoyment. If you aren't chugging to make your room rattle, are you really even playing?

5" monitors will make small rooms rattle.

 

[Matt08642]

I can get these to noise complaint levels in my apartment:



Anyone suggesting studio monitors for an untreated, non-soundproof apartment is fucking nuts.

 

[Shask]

Have you ever heard of the fletcher-munson curves? We humans perceive the low end much stronger at lower decibel levels, and our ears "built in EQ" flattens up the louder the sound source gets. So yeah, I'd have an overaly bass-heavy system at low volume. No thanks.


Then acknowledge that you can't be categorical when not everyone has the same space to work with. Smaller setups work better for smaller rooms. It's not that difficult. The sound waves bounce faster so the build up of low end frequencies is also faster. Having too much low end will overpower everything in a small room.


5" monitors will make small rooms rattle.

Yes, I have heard of F-M. I have been at this for a long time, and know more about this stuff than you probably realize. The thing is, I dont care because it is situational. Unless my goal is to make a sound, and then take it up to performance levels, F-M doesn't apply. My goal is to enjoy my playing, at a standard 85 db level. That is how I play 95% of the time.

Yes, not everyone has the same space. However, I would rather have too much and be able to dial it back, then to not have enough to begin with. Overly bassy just means I have the ability to dial in exactly what I want. However, if that were my situation, I would look at fixing the root of the issue, which is to not live in an apartment. I would put more money into my living situation, than my hobby situation. However, that is probably a topic for another thread.

I had 5" monitors. They have no fullness. They do not increase the enjoyment of playing.

 

[Shask]

Back when I lived in an apartment, I had a 5150 head and a 212 cab. I put an EQ in the loop for fine tuning the volume. It worked just fine. I am sure if that works, people can make small 6.5" speakers work.

 

[Emperoff]

However, if that were my situation, I would look at fixing the root of the issue, which is to not live in an apartment. I would put more money into my living situation, than my hobby situation. However, that is probably a topic for another thread.

Are you freakin' serious?

I can imagine the conversation already:
"Honey, we're moving. I can't get the room pumping with my 5" monitors. Let's move to a house and spend hundreds of thousands of dollars so I can get some 8" monitors rollin'"