US Political Discussion: Biden/Harris Edition (Rules in OP)

[Ordacleaphobia]

The categorizing of gender dyphoria as a mental illness is a whole 'nother conversation...but as long as it is the case, is there still no non-combat roles that could be effectively performed by someone with this "condition" (as it were)? Are there no millitary-employed mess-hall staff? Mailroom employees? Translators? Data analysts? I kinda fall into a similar line of thinking with "gay marriage", where there should be no legal limitations for legal marriage between two people, but then individual churches can still also have their own ceremonies according to their own beliefs. But at the same time, I do realize that it's a slippery slope to "separate but equal" *shivers*.

It's tricky man, because the classification of 'mental illness' technically puts in the same bucket as something like schizophrenia.
You'd be hard pressed to find anyone who would argue the two are comparable, but technically, they're both a 'mental illness' on the books. If someone's got something that makes them mentally unstable and you stick them in the mess hall, who has to handle it when they pull a knife from the chopping block and start waving it around?

It's the rule or the classification, and I'm pretty in favor of playing it safe with the rule. That leaves the classification, and...while I can see the medical intent in classifying it as a mental illness, in practice, I don't think that's productive. I would opt for an exemption for that specific condition, were it up to me.

But, you know...clown world.

 

[Xaios]

You'd be hard pressed to find anyone who would argue the two are comparable

It would be great if this were true, but in a world where some parents don't want gay people looking after their children in daycare because for some reason they equate all homosexuals as also being mincing pedophiles (because OBVIOUSLY being attracted to the same gender also means that person is a child rapist in waiting, right? ), people who would think that gender dysphoria is a mental illness comparable to schizophrenia are all too common.

 

[MetalHex]

It would be great if this were true, but in a world where some parents don't want gay people looking after their children in daycare because for some reason they equate all homosexuals as also being mincing pedophiles (because OBVIOUSLY being attracted to the same gender also means that person is a child rapist in waiting, right? ), people who would think that gender dysphoria is a mental illness comparable to schizophrenia are all too common.

Thats because schizophrenia is probably not the condition to compare gender dysphoria to. Sociaopathy would more likely be fitting.

Take Bruce Jenner in early 2015. He gets behind the wheel drunk and hits and kills a woman. (How he is not behind bars we'll never know, but we can guess)

As a result it would be evident that something went amis in his brain and thought that making the change to live like a woman from then on, was in the best interest of himself (and women possibly?)

With all of that comes with self-image, worrying about what everyone will think of them, how to get approval from other women. It is my own personal belief that its possible that he will regret this life-changing decision later on which would add more detriment to his mental health and those around him.

So was he a sociopath his whole life, or did it strike him after he hit that woman? Would you agree or disagree with the sociopath comparison?

This is all just my observation

 

[spudmunkey]

Take Bruce Jenner in early 2015. He gets behind the wheel drunk and hits and kills a woman. (How he is not behind bars we'll never know, but we can guess)

Not to open a can of worms, but wasn't there field sobriety test that Jenner passed, and both a criminal and civil lawsuit couldn't determine fault? Is there something you know that everyone involved doesn't?

 

[MetalHex]

Not to open a can of worms, but wasn't there field sobriety test that Jenner passed, and both a criminal and civil lawsuit couldn't determine fault? Is there something you know that everyone involved doesn't?

Im sure he "passed" alot of things along with a get out of jail free card

 

[Ordacleaphobia]

It would be great if this were true, but in a world where some parents don't want gay people looking after their children in daycare because for some reason they equate all homosexuals as also being mincing pedophiles (because OBVIOUSLY being attracted to the same gender also means that person is a child rapist in waiting, right? ), people who would think that gender dysphoria is a mental illness comparable to schizophrenia are all too common.

Too common =/= Common, though. Very, very important distinction.
[Also, for this example, I would expect the concern to stem from a worry that the children would be indoctrinated rather than abused. Still judgey, but not as much]

Maybe my perception on this is skewed since I'm from CA and we're so blue it's almost black over here, but I've only ever met a few people that are genuinely this opposed to gay people. I can literally count them on one hand and I don't even need to use all of my fingers.

I'm not saying it's not a concern, I'm just saying that keeping things in proportion and on scale is important for public discourse.

 

[spudmunkey]

I've only ever met a few people that are genuinely this opposed to gay people. I can literally count them on one hand and I don't even need to use all of my fingers.

I'm from a pretty rural part of Wisconsin. I've lived in California for 18 years this fall. When i went home for my parent's 40th last year, I still had a relative ask, "Did they turn you fag yet?". When I first moved here, a different relative asked, "So, do the gays just run around wild like that all over?" You can imagine the ribbing I got when they found out that I was moving our here to live with a friend of mine in a *gasp* one bedroom apartment (I slept in the living room). One of my high school friends was forbidden from hanging out with another kid who had "dick sucking lips". But then again, they are also the same ones who share the "By 2025, experts say there will be enough muslims in america to elect a president. Everyone needs to know, but I bet only 10% of my friends love their country enough to share. This must be stopped", and when they came out to visit, saw someone with a turban and beard leaving the grocery store, and said, "I don't like seeing people that look like terrorists everywhere."

 

[Ordacleaphobia]

I'm from a pretty rural part of Wisconsin. I've lived in California for 18 years this fall. When i went home for my parent's 40th last year, I still had a relative ask, "Did they turn you fag yet?". When I first moved here, a different relative asked, "So, do the gays just run around wild like that all over?" You can imagine the ribbing I got when they found out that I was moving our here to live with a friend of mine in a *gasp* one bedroom apartment (I slept in the living room). One of my high school friends was forbidden from hanging out with another kid who had "dick sucking lips". But then again, they are also the same ones who share the "By 2025, experts say there will be enough muslims in america to elect a president. Everyone needs to know, but I bet only 10% of my friends love their country enough to share. This must be stopped", and when they came out to visit, saw someone with a turban and beard leaving the grocery store, and said, "I don't like seeing people that look like terrorists everywhere."

Jesus christ.
Well. Looks like this state does at least one thing right I guess.

 

[narad]

Thats because schizophrenia is probably not the condition to compare gender dysphoria to. Sociaopathy would more likely be fitting.

Take Bruce Jenner in early 2015. He gets behind the wheel drunk and hits and kills a woman. (How he is not behind bars we'll never know, but we can guess)

As a result it would be evident that something went amis in his brain and thought that making the change to live like a woman from then on, was in the best interest of himself (and women possibly?)

If this is how you troll, 5 demerits.
If this is how you seriously construct arguments, 100 demerits.

 

[MetalHex]

If this is how you troll, 5 demerits.
If this is how you seriously construct arguments, 100 demerits.

Was that supposed to be your rebuttal, or your contribution to the discussion?

You could have just not said anything instead of being a wise ass

 

[narad]

Was that supposed to be your rebuttal, or your contribution to the discussion?

You could have just not said anything instead of being a wise ass

I wasn't aware that one guy imagining what it's like to be Caitlyn Jenner was really deserving of a rebuttal? Basing an argument on imagination-power isn't exactly my style.

I mean, just consider for a moment, how mis-guided it is to use one person's car accident as justification for classifying 1.4 million Americans as mentally ill. Godwin's law aside, look at Hitler. How could he do that? Clearly Austrians must be mentally ill. Sociopathic, really.

 

[MetalHex]

I wasn't aware that one guy imagining what it's like to be Caitlyn Jenner was really deserving of a rebuttal? Basing an argument on imagination-power isn't exactly my style.

I mean, just consider for a moment, how mis-guided it is to use one person's car accident as justification for classifying 1.4 million Americans as mentally ill. Godwin's law aside, look at Hitler. How could he do that? Clearly Austrians must be mentally ill. Sociopathic, really.

Edit: so you dont think that all trans people are sociopathic. Fine. Moving on

 

[USMarine75]

A lot of psychological terms being incorrectly thrown out here. As someone with $300k in debt from degrees in psych in med please allow me to clear some stuff up...

I keep seeing gender dysphoria. I do not think that means what you think it means. Gender dysphoria is not gender nonconformity (AKA variance). Gender dysphoria is in the DSM5 and is a personality disorder, due to the distress one feels from their birth gender not matching their gender identity. Again, the disorder is not due to the mismatch, it is due to the distress. Gender nonconformity is the behavior expressed by those that don't feel their outward gender matches their gender identity. Gender nonconformity is not a personality disorder.

There is also intersex, which is often lumped in, but it is a medical condition that may lead to gender nonconformity and often dysphoria.

Thus, the use of the term sociopathy (or psychopathy) is completely incorrect here.

OK... not picking sides... continue your argument.

 

[StevenC]

Edit: so you dont think that all trans people are sociopathic. Fine. Moving on

Imagine being the other side of this argument.

 

[tedtan]

Jesus christ.
Well. Looks like this state does at least one thing right I guess.

You think that's bad, I remember cases here in Houston of gay teens being beaten to death within the past 10-15 years. And that's Houston, where we have a large gay community and had an openly lesbian mayor - aside from Austin, the rest of the state is significantly further right than Houston.

 

[Drew]

Bill Weld declared, as Trump's first primary challenger, over the weekend:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...6a7eb36cb60_story.html?utm_term=.2f073a78693e

Tough to say how this will play out - he's definitely a long shot, but it depends how much of Trump's high approval with Republicans is "team loyalty" and supporting whoever happens to be the Republican president, vs Trump really being in tune with the interests of modern-day Republican voters. If the latter, then this is a blowout, if the former, then Weld could, with a bit of luck, actually peel off a good number of Trump voters.

I don't think he's a real risk to Trump, but that Trump is even getting primary opponents isn't really a great sign for him.

 

[Ralyks]

but it depends how much of Trump's high approval with Republicans is "team loyalty" and supporting whoever happens to be the Republican president, vs Trump really being in tune with the interests of modern-day Republican voters.

This is definitely the most interesting tidbit with any Republicans that choose to run against Trump, and I really want to see how it plays out.

 

[USMarine75]

Bill Weld declared, as Trump's first primary challenger, over the weekend:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...6a7eb36cb60_story.html?utm_term=.2f073a78693e

Tough to say how this will play out - he's definitely a long shot, but it depends how much of Trump's high approval with Republicans is "team loyalty" and supporting whoever happens to be the Republican president, vs Trump really being in tune with the interests of modern-day Republican voters. If the latter, then this is a blowout, if the former, then Weld could, with a bit of luck, actually peel off a good number of Trump voters.

I don't think he's a real risk to Trump, but that Trump is even getting primary opponents isn't really a great sign for him.

I think his link to Gary “What is an Aleppo” Johnson will sabotage him before he even starts. No way enough Republicans will respect him for him to even make a dent IMO.

 

[Ordacleaphobia]

Tough to say how this will play out - he's definitely a long shot, but it depends how much of Trump's high approval with Republicans is "team loyalty" and supporting whoever happens to be the Republican president, vs Trump really being in tune with the interests of modern-day Republican voters. If the latter, then this is a blowout, if the former, then Weld could, with a bit of luck, actually peel off a good number of Trump voters.

This is something I'm really curious about.
I honestly have no idea what to expect from the primaries this time around. I don't think he'll be as successful as last time if he uses the same tactics, either- he mostly just bullied his way through the primaries during the last election. I don't think he'd be able to get away with that again as the establishment, sitting candidate.

 

[StevenC]

One has to imagine there's room for the classic "you haven't done anything for the last 4 years" opponent within the GOP.