US Political Discussion: Biden/Harris Edition (Rules in OP)

[spudmunkey]

What the fuck is the bloke who has set himself on fire outside where Trump is on trial all about??!
He is apparently in a critical condition in hospital. He had been there all week with banners or something people had said so i assume he is a Trump supporter tho that hasn't been confirmed.
This kinda shit happening in America, I mean what the ever living fuck?

Rumors are that he's against both Biden and Trump because they are colluding to "fascist coup us", because crypto.

 

[wheresthefbomb]

The genocidal dementia ridden shitbag president actually did something for trans people. I wasn't expecting it and it's still not enough but it's more than I ever thought he'd do

Biden's new Title IX rules protect LGBTQ students, but trans sports rule still on hold

The new rule makes “crystal clear that everyone can access schools that are safe, welcoming and that respect their rights,” Education Secretary Miguel Cardona said.

www.nbcnews.com

I work in public schools. Our shitbag governor is trying to pass legislation to make it illegal for school staff to use a student's preferred name or pronouns without parental consent, to disallow trans students from sports corresponding to their gender identity, to ban them from bathrooms not corresponding to their birth gender, and a lot of other insidious shit all under the guise of "parental rights." I am hopeful this federal policy puts a stop to some or ideally all of that.

 

[Randy]

 

[MetalDestroyer]

“Who am I getting paid to shill again? Anyway trust and listen to me American voters”

 

[thebeesknees22]

I find the reports that Trump is sitting in a courtroom farting up a storm and stinking up the place quite humorous.

 

[crushingpetal]

I find the reports that Trump is sitting in a courtroom farting up a storm and stinking up the place quite humorous.

He does seem like a farter. Is that a real report?

 

[thebeesknees22]

He does seem like a farter. Is that a real report?

It's being reported, but whether or not it's 100% fact or not is in questions since no one will reveal the sources. But it still makes me laugh. It's not the first time reports have gone around about trump stinking up a place lol

 

[Bodes]

I work in public schools. Our shitbag governor is trying to pass legislation to make it illegal for school staff to use a student's preferred name or pronouns without parental consent, to disallow trans students from sports corresponding to their gender identity, to ban them from bathrooms not corresponding to their birth gender, and a lot of other insidious shit all under the guise of "parental rights." I am hopeful this federal policy puts a stop to some or ideally all of that.

Aussie teacher here.

Interesting. We had our school psyche tell us we have to do the same thing. The reason we have to is the state government wants to ensure that we don't inadvertently 'out' (poor word, sorry if insult) students to their parents during parent-teachers, or emails, etc.
Something about causing more harm to the student. The school psyche/counselling team want to work with students who are figuring out who they are (another awful, sorry) or struggling to work how how to tell people and try to work with the individual with developing the confidence and support structures on how they can approach their parents in a safe way.

However, when it comes to sports, etc, I am unsure. I work at an academic school which struggles to get some sports teams up so not sure if it has been an issue at my school.

State government policy

Not just happening in The US, but our policy reads to be coming from a better place than your governor.

I will admit that I struggle to understand what is 'best practice' around LGBTIQA+ students, particularly as our policies change so often with trying to stay up to date with what is perceived as 'best practice'. I just do my best to treat my students as people.

 

[narad]

Unrelated to the last page or so but I was previously defending some Trump voters as not being morally terrible people purely by virtue of having voted for him. Today I was listening to the latest Pod Save America podcast -- Alex Gardland makes the same point:

Pod Save America | Crooked Media

crooked.com

I'm not entirely through the episode and it's pretty casual in nature, but hey, I don't hear the topic almost ever come up directly in some external media.

 

[crushingpetal]

Unrelated to the last page or so but I was previously defending some Trump voters as not being morally terrible people purely by virtue of having voted for him. Today I was listening to the latest Pod Save America podcast -- Alex Gardland makes the same point:

Pod Save America | Crooked Media

crooked.com

I'm not entirely through the episode and it's pretty casual in nature, but hey, I don't hear the topic almost ever come up directly in some external media.

"Morally terrible people" can be loose talk (as linguists say) for "a morally terrible action".

 

[wheresthefbomb]

Aussie teacher here.

Interesting. We had our school psyche tell us we have to do the same thing. The reason we have to is the state government wants to ensure that we don't inadvertently 'out' (poor word, sorry if insult) students to their parents during parent-teachers, or emails, etc.
Something about causing more harm to the student. The school psyche/counselling team want to work with students who are figuring out who they are (another awful, sorry) or struggling to work how how to tell people and try to work with the individual with developing the confidence and support structures on how they can approach their parents in a safe way.

However, when it comes to sports, etc, I am unsure. I work at an academic school which struggles to get some sports teams up so not sure if it has been an issue at my school.

State government policy

Not just happening in The US, but our policy reads to be coming from a better place than your governor.

I will admit that I struggle to understand what is 'best practice' around LGBTIQA+ students, particularly as our policies change so often with trying to stay up to date with what is perceived as 'best practice'. I just do my best to treat my students as people.

Yeah, in our case it's all a pretext for denying the personhood of trans students. Parents' rights can fuck off. I've long felt we give children far too little agency when it comes to school, medication choices, and many other things.

 

[DrewH]

Yeah, in our case it's all a pretext for denying the personhood of trans students. Parents' rights can fuck off. I've long felt we give children far too little agency when it comes to school, medication choices, and many other things.

Parents are legally responsible for raising their children so they do have rights. Maher brought up a very good point about left policies driving moderates to the right and this is shit that does it. "Fuck off, parents" is not exactly how you ingratiate yourselves to the folks who sit in the middle and have to pick between Biden and Trump or whoever it is in the future. That has always been the main problem with the left, especially in the last 15 years. Everything is extreme. Free college. Free medical care. Fuck off, parents, when it comes to the children you are raising. That's not to say there isn't some good in any of that. I have been a proponent of universal healthcare. But, I always thought the less scary more digestible thing for most folks would be to lower medicare age to 55 and take it in steps from there. In regards to children, I don't care what pronoun they go by. It's their identity and their life. But, parents should be informed and/or give consent.

 

[crushingpetal]

Parents are legally responsible for raising their children so they do have rights. Maher brought up a very good point about left policies driving moderates to the right and this is shit that does it. "Fuck off, parents" is not exactly how you ingratiate yourselves to the folks who sit in the middle and have to pick between Biden and Trump or whoever it is in the future. That has always been the main problem with the left, especially in the last 15 years. Everything is extreme. Free college. Free medical care. Fuck off, parents, when it comes to the children you are raising. That's not to say there isn't some good in any of that. I have been a proponent of universal healthcare. But, I always thought the less scary more digestible thing for most folks would be to lower medicare age to 55 and take it in steps from there. In regards to children, I don't care what pronoun they go by. It's their identity and their life. But, parents should be informed and/or give consent.

1) This is a 7 string guitar forum, cut the "doesn't play well in middle America" crap.

2) Here's a game: pick your state. Find the youngest a child has been prosecuted for a crime as an adult in that state. Call that age "X". Then it's okay for a child at age X to have privacy at school in determining their name and / or gender.

 

[Big Dumb Bitch]

Parents are legally responsible for raising their children so they do have rights. Maher brought up a very good point about left policies driving moderates to the right and this is shit that does it. "Fuck off, parents" is not exactly how you ingratiate yourselves to the folks who sit in the middle and have to pick between Biden and Trump or whoever it is in the future. That has always been the main problem with the left, especially in the last 15 years. Everything is extreme. Free college. Free medical care. Fuck off, parents, when it comes to the children you are raising. That's not to say there isn't some good in any of that. I have been a proponent of universal healthcare. But, I always thought the less scary more digestible thing for most folks would be to lower medicare age to 55 and take it in steps from there. In regards to children, I don't care what pronoun they go by. It's their identity and their life. But, parents should be informed and/or give consent.

Nothing the left in America does is remotely extreme. We have a right wing party and a fascist party and everyone here knows which one you're part of.

Parents shouldn't be informed if their kid goes by different pronouns at school because it puts the child in danger you ignorant fuck. Outing them could result in all kinds of unnecessary consequences to the kid. If a kid isn't out to their parents at home and isn't supported there it's for a reason and it's usually because their parents are pieces of shit who aren't fit to have children. I didn't come out to my parents until I was 27 and they weren't really much of a part of my life anymore. If I came out as a kid I would have been beaten and abused more than I already was and 15 years ago I most likely would have been disowned. I got lucky and my mom came around and is supportive as fuck now and the majority of queer kids don't get near as lucky as me. These openly queer kids who are actually able to be themselves today are some of the most amazing and genuine people that there are and everyone my age or older doesn't want them to have to go through all the bullshit we had to.

I hate ignorant cishet people like you so fucking much. I genuinely believe people like you and people on the same bullshit as you cause just as much harm to the queer community as the Republican party does. Your apathy and inability to recognize your own privilege is so incredibly harmful to everyone who isn't a straight white man but you're too stupid to ever be able to figure that out or fix it.

 

[PuckishGuitar]

Parents are legally responsible for raising their children so they do have rights. Maher brought up a very good point about left policies driving moderates to the right and this is shit that does it. "Fuck off, parents" is not exactly how you ingratiate yourselves to the folks who sit in the middle and have to pick between Biden and Trump or whoever it is in the future. That has always been the main problem with the left, especially in the last 15 years. Everything is extreme. Free college. Free medical care. Fuck off, parents, when it comes to the children you are raising. That's not to say there isn't some good in any of that. I have been a proponent of universal healthcare. But, I always thought the less scary more digestible thing for most folks would be to lower medicare age to 55 and take it in steps from there. In regards to children, I don't care what pronoun they go by. It's their identity and their life. But, parents should be informed and/or give consent.

The needle to thread here is what if the parents are abusive and take it out on the child, rather than constructively guide them? A bunch of us while growing up probably saw classmates that came out as gay getting tons of shit from their families and made them miserable. It’d be nice if all parents would be understanding and help their kids find their own path, whether it’s real or just a phase, but that isn’t going to happen anytime soon. To be honest I find the parents most pissed off about this are the ones that would hurt their kids, and are vocal about it. Lord knows I’ve had to listen to enough coworkers pull the “ain’t no kid of mine going to cut their dick off” schtick and straight up say they’d beat their kid instead of listen to them.

Is there room for abuse by kids crying wolf and using this as a way to get back at their parents? Probably, and it would have to be managed. But the highest harm potential is going to come from parents flying off the handle.

 

[MetalDestroyer]

If there’s anything I learned from existing and talking to other human beings, it’s that not all parents are good parents. Fuck their “rights” bro protect the kids

 

[DrewH]

Nothing the left in America does is remotely extreme. We have a right wing party and a fascist party and everyone here knows which one you're part of.

Parents shouldn't be informed if their kid goes by different pronouns at school because it puts the child in danger you ignorant fuck. Outing them could result in all kinds of unnecessary consequences to the kid. If a kid isn't out to their parents at home and isn't supported there it's for a reason and it's usually because their parents are pieces of shit who aren't fit to have children. I didn't come out to my parents until I was 27 and they weren't really much of a part of my life anymore. If I came out as a kid I would have been beaten and abused more than I already was and 15 years ago I most likely would have been disowned. I got lucky and my mom came around and is supportive as fuck now and the majority of queer kids don't get near as lucky as me. These openly queer kids who are actually able to be themselves today are some of the most amazing and genuine people that there are and everyone my age or older doesn't want them to have to go through all the bullshit we had to.

I hate ignorant cishet people like you so fucking much. I genuinely believe people like you and people on the same bullshit as you cause just as much harm to the queer community as the Republican party does. Your apathy and inability to recognize your own privilege is so incredibly harmful to everyone who isn't a straight white man but you're too stupid to ever be able to figure that out or fix it.

We are all trying to be civilized now so I'm going to take the high road. I suggest maybe dialing it back.

 

[narad]

I'm not sure how this is supposed to work. Sure, I don't particularly see the need to inform parents of whatever pronouns their kid is using, but if students are going to inform all teachers and staff at a school to use a certain pronoun, then shouldn't all the teachers and staff use those pronouns when interacting with the parents regarding their children? Aren't they going to be outed right then?

 

[Moongrum]

then shouldn't all the teachers and staff use those pronouns when interacting with the parents regarding their children? Aren't they going to be outed right then?

Assuming there's policies in place like Bodes' school has:

Something about causing more harm to the student. The school psyche/counselling team want to work with students who are figuring out who they are (another awful, sorry) or struggling to work how how to tell people and try to work with the individual with developing the confidence and support structures on how they can approach their parents in a safe way.

I wouldn't think the students would be outed.

You also say all teachers and staff. I'm not sure what it was like when you were in school, but my parents only talked to my teachers for parent/teacher conferences, which I think was only once or twice a year, and I only had one teacher for each grade in primary school. Then in secondary school, they only spoke to homeroom teachers for those conferences, so in my case it wouldn't be a school wide operative if I needed my teacher to use another pronoun when talking to my parents Not sure if my school experience is typical, though.

 

[narad]

Assuming there's policies in place like Bodes' school has:

I wouldn't think the students would be outed.

You also say all teachers and staff. I'm not sure what it was like when you were in school, but my parents only talked to my teachers for parent/teacher conferences, which I think was only once or twice a year, and I only had one teacher for each grade in primary school. Then in secondary school, they only spoke to homeroom teachers for those conferences, so in my case it wouldn't be a school wide operative if I needed my teacher to use another pronoun when talking to my parents Not sure if my school experience is typical, though.

I guess I'm just talking secondary school (7th grade+). But it's weird to me the parent/teacher conference was just with your homeroom teacher since that person basically knows nothing regarding the student's performance, things they seem to be struggling with on homework, classroom behavior, etc. When I was at school, parents would talk to most teachers, or definitely have the ability to meet with the 7 or so other teachers that student has throughout the day for their actual subjects.

So there's that, but then just more generally, your friends talking to their parents, their parents talking to your parents, everyone together for some sort activity. It's the whole community. It just seems weird to be so concerned with creating a double life that is <parents> | <every other person a child interacts with at school>. Trying to get everyone to refer to you one way, and then keeping that information away from certain people, are inherently at odds with one another. If you want everyone to address you in a certain way at school, and word of that reaches your parents by any means, and they abuse you for it, the problem isn't the way information flows -- it's the parents abusing you. As far as not informing parents of a pronoun registered with the school, fine, it doesn't seem like pertinent information to communicate. But that shouldn't be the only way that someone's parents are interacting with essentially everyone else in the kid's life.