Spaced Out Ace
Well-Known Member
Going after mental health, which clearly needs funding and research.
Where Do You Stand On Gun Control/Second Amendment?
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I came here to say this.
Are all murderers mentally ill?
narad
Progressive metal and politics
If you conveniently define mentally ill as having the urge to shoot up a school.
?!
Alright. So, say we add 20% more funding to mental health research. Maybe that's a start, but what, specifically, would that have done to make this most recent tragedy less likely? This dude was offered mental help, but he refused. It was his right to refuse care. It was also his right to purchase an AR15, in spite of his known mental illness, in order to protect himself, right? So seriously, name one aspect of what you just said that could have resulted in prevention of this most recent shooting.
On the other hand, this fellow was known to be mentally ill, violent, and unstable. He should not have been allowed to have owned an AR15. Had he been institutionalized, he would have been less likely to have shot up the school, but if he did not have access to a gun, then that likelihood would have been even less. "Going after mental health" is rather vaguely worded.
Spaced Out Ace
Well-Known Member
I'm not repeating myself to you. Move on.
Who should be allowed then?
The argument "knives and trucks also kill people" is total nonsense to me.
You buy a knife to cut your steak or a truck to carry stuff from point A to point B, not to kill people.
Spaced Out Ace
Well-Known Member
No. I'm not having a back and forth with someone wanting to pick a battle. I said my piece and I'm not going on and on about it. If you or bosty would like to have a back and forth, might I suggest you two discuss the matter?
Spaced Out Ace
Well-Known Member
How do you know what they bought the knife or truck for, though? Maybe they saw a shitty 80s horror movie and decided to go stab people because they were high on PCP and couldn't differentiate between a movie and real life?
From a legal standpoint, anyone can, essentially, unless they are convicted felons, basically.
From a common sense standpoint, ...
Owning an AR15 means being equipped to take down multiple targets (people). IF you are a trained soldier/commando, then you should have one of those weapons. A collector might want to own one, but if it's merely for the sake of collection, I'd hint that it doesn't need to function.
If I want to protect my home from enemy commandos or soldiers or a swarm of agents, the AR15 would be a suitable choice. Since I only wear a tinfoil hat part time, I'm fine with not owning anything like that.
Maybe someone buys a truck in order to run people over, or buys a hacksaw for chopping up the bodies in their basement, but something like an AR15 serves one practical purpose, really. I suppose someone might try to be absurd and say that they want one to use as a canopener or for hunting snipe, but there are much more effective tools for those sorts of things. The AR15 is a combat rifle, which really shines when it's used in combat or for slaughtering a bunch of unarmed people. I mean, the argument toward intended purpose is a little silly for something like that.
But that's just speaking from practicality. From a legal standpoint, you know, the law isn't concerned with who buys what for which purpose, so it's perfectly legal to buy an AR15 or whichever modern combat rifle one chooses, really.
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StevenC
Needs a hobby
In Northern Ireland we convinced actual terrorist militias to hand in there guns. Gun control in America isn't about feasibility it's about motivation.
That's cool. I can respect that you don't want to get into it. You made your opinion clear, and I think that's cool that you stated your opinion.
If you jet out of this discussion, that might leave me as the most pro-gun person in the thread, relatively speaking.
Personally, I think politicizing either the gun side or the mental health side is probably going to do more damage than good in the long run. I don't know of any immediate solution to the mass shooting problem in the USA. I just know that the entire thing has reached a level of frustration for both sides of the debate that there is probably no way to enact any change short of someone else getting shot.
The militias and republican armies, though, are at least some semblance of organized. Gun culture enthusiasts in the USA are just a demographic. What would motivate them to change their principles? I don't think there is anything at this point. You're talking about a very wide spectrum of people from the ones sitting all night staring at the door with a loaded rifle, waiting for the agents to break down the door to the guy who just happens to like going to the shooting range on Sundays to practice target shooting for sport, to the poor Vermonter who makes $3700/year and has to shoot deer in order to feed himself. The problem is that you never know which is which, and the two latter examples almost never go and shoot up a crowd of people, except when they do and no one say it coming. At least the first group you know are trouble, but then there's the fact that even when you know someone is paranoid, delusional, and deeply schizophrenic, there is no law in place to prevent them from obtaining a weapons arsenal, posting threats online, and then committing a mass shooting.
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narad
Progressive metal and politics
Funny story, the AR-15 was originally invented when astronauts discovered it was difficult to write with traditional pens in zero G. It was later misappropriated by people with mental health issues as the de facto weapon for school slaughter.
Spaced Out Ace
Well-Known Member
Interesting idea...
Fair enough. I seriously do feel that we need to help the mentally ill, and advance mental health services. I see guns as tools; most people use them to protect themselves, to hunt, etc. Some are fucked in the head, and need help. Putting a gun in their hands, when they have issues with telling the difference between reality and make believe [Rambo, FPS games], and/or have issues with conflict resolution, then shit like this is more likely to happen.That's cool. I can respect that you don't want to get into it. You made your opinion clear, and I think that's cool that you stated your opinion.
If you jet out of this discussion, that might leave me as the most pro-gun person in the thread, relatively speaking.
Personally, I think politicizing either the gun side or the mental health side is probably going to do more damage than good in the long run. I don't know of any immediate solution to the mass shooting problem in the USA. I just know that the entire thing has reached a level of frustration for both sides of the debate that there is probably no way to enact any change short of someone else getting shot.
Anyways, there is my piece, and that's where I'm leaving it quite frankly. As far as I was aware, however, aren't people with mental health issues barred from getting guns just like felons? Then again, tons of weird shit happens in Florida, so who knows.
Sort of.
You can be added to a database if you've ever been involuntarily committed to a certain type of institution or a court has already declared you mentally ill.
So even if you're actively seeking help for a mental illness as long as you haven't been committed or adjudicated you can purchase a firearm.
That said, many mental illnesses, like schizophrenia, aren't typically diagnosed until the person has a significant episode.
As of right now, there is very little stopping anyone from buying a gun, whether you're a felon, have mental problems or are just pissed off and want to ruin lives. Anyone can pull up ArmsList, find a private seller and grab a gun.
Yeah, so anyone can purchase a gun, really.https://www.criminalwatchdog.com/faq/background-checks-for-guns said:
Not to mention with the popularity and availability of 80% lowers and frames you don't have to go through an FLL even on new guns.
Gun control? There is no gun control.
Gun control? There is no gun control.
AngstRiddenDreams
Filthy Casual
If you need a specialized license to drive a Semi truck you should have to go through a similarly rigorous licensing process to own assault weapons.
Anyone opposed to this I see as projecting their fear that they won't meet the requirements.
Mental illness is not unique to America, there exists no disparity in mental illness here vs other countries compared to the disparity in mass shooting occurrences.
And to those saying treat mental health problems as the solution. We can both treat mental illness more effectively and make it more difficult for guns to get into the hands of the mentally ill. They are in no way mutually exclusive.
Anyone opposed to this I see as projecting their fear that they won't meet the requirements.
Mental illness is not unique to America, there exists no disparity in mental illness here vs other countries compared to the disparity in mass shooting occurrences.
And to those saying treat mental health problems as the solution. We can both treat mental illness more effectively and make it more difficult for guns to get into the hands of the mentally ill. They are in no way mutually exclusive.
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