BeyondAntares
Well-Known Member
Thanks, I'll give that a try.
String Tension Super Thread (Got a string question? Post it here!)
- Thread starter MaxOfMetal
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SixStrings_Monk
SS.org Regular
Not sure if fitting for the thread, but WHY would I want to tune so low as a (kinda) beginner?
From using some tension calculators, thicker strings on lower tunings have some weird balance issues, and I'd have to mess with my nut and bridge to accomodate...
Or I could just stay on standard/fourths tuning.
I like metal, but only having use of this guitar means I can't be so free with tuning choices.
From using some tension calculators, thicker strings on lower tunings have some weird balance issues, and I'd have to mess with my nut and bridge to accomodate...
Or I could just stay on standard/fourths tuning.
I like metal, but only having use of this guitar means I can't be so free with tuning choices.
CanserDYI
Yeah, No, Definitely.
First thing I can think of is to play/learn songs from bands that tune that low. Maybe you are just like me and prefer a deeper voicing, up to you. No reason to tune low if you don't want to or have a reason to.
Neon_Knight_
Well-Known Member
It certainly doesn't need to be a priority. Plenty of people are perfectly content playing only in E standard, but a lot of music (particularly metal) is in lower tunings. Although E standard is probably the most common tuning across my music collection, overall only a minority of the music I listen to is in E standard, so only playing in E standard would massively limit which of my favourite songs / riffs I can learn (already limited by my ability, so I don't need further barriers haha!).
I agree that it's a hassle to regularly change the tuning of a guitar. Switching between E standard / Drop D / Eb standard is relatively minimal hassle, if you don't mind compromising slightly on string tension (i.e. use the same string gauge for all of them). Any lower and the set-up will take far more tinkering.
A lot of us here get around this by owning multiple guitars, so that we can keep one set up optimally for each tuning we play in. As an added bonus, they make beautiful wall decorations while not in use.
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Simple ... you would do this because you want to
SixStrings_Monk
SS.org Regular
Hmm, D standard would let me learn Mastodon and Gojira, which would really help my chops.
Won't I need files for the nut? Hope I can find those asap when buying strings...
I do want a lower sound, just wary of having to setup my guitar again.
Won't I need files for the nut? Hope I can find those asap when buying strings...
I do want a lower sound, just wary of having to setup my guitar again.
Jinn
SS.org Regular
How do I take my baritone 7 to Northlane tunings? (Double drop f if I remember correctly) it’s a 27” scale but I’m not sure if I need to get a setup done or anything. Thanks!
CanserDYI
Yeah, No, Definitely.
So this last week I woke up and for some reason I'm able to use light strings? No fucking idea how, but I was able to lower my string gauges on my 7 string to a set of .056s which I used to use .068s, and my 8 string to a .074 from a .085.
I have zero idea how this happened, but I'm so happy. I now can buy off the shelf string sets. I've been playing in drop A for as long as I can remember and Im new to drop E 8 string, but I've never been able to use light strings, always buzzy to me and way more susceptible to pitch drift, but woke up this week and just did it and my tone is sooooo much better. Clarity is back, and for some reason I can attack the strings and really dig in and I don't seem to notice any of the other issues I used to deal with. My Kiesel came with a . 062 on it and I felt at the time that was just some puny floppy string, but now that's too big for me haha, weird how things change. I've been playing since 2001 and always was a heavy strings guy.
I used to really like the tightness of the heavy strings, but the roundness of them made precise picking cumbersome, this definitely helped.
I have zero idea how this happened, but I'm so happy. I now can buy off the shelf string sets. I've been playing in drop A for as long as I can remember and Im new to drop E 8 string, but I've never been able to use light strings, always buzzy to me and way more susceptible to pitch drift, but woke up this week and just did it and my tone is sooooo much better. Clarity is back, and for some reason I can attack the strings and really dig in and I don't seem to notice any of the other issues I used to deal with. My Kiesel came with a . 062 on it and I felt at the time that was just some puny floppy string, but now that's too big for me haha, weird how things change. I've been playing since 2001 and always was a heavy strings guy.
I used to really like the tightness of the heavy strings, but the roundness of them made precise picking cumbersome, this definitely helped.
Neon_Knight_
Well-Known Member
I use .054 for the low B on my 6-string in B standard and it feels similar to using a .042 for the low E in E standard tuning. .056 for a low A must be fairly similar tension.
I have never understood why people feel the need to use such heavy strings for low tunings, when the resulting tensions are equivalent to using a 13 or 14 gauge set in standard tuning...which would clearly be madness.
jco5055
Well-Known Member
ok I'm going to ask my question here, just in case it technically is mainly a string tension question haha: I cannot find anywhere (a google/youtube search just now confirmed my thoughts on this) any real guide to how the springs should be setup for a FR-style bridge. I know in general 3 springs is standard, but as someone who prefers a softer/smoother feel (as I've stated a few times, I think just by feel I like Kahlers more, as well as Vega trems) , how would I determine if 2 still "works" so to speak? Do I need to just look up string tension for the strings and tuning I like, then the amount of springs equals that tension?
And that's not even getting into if with 2 springs would I need to do the triangular positioning of the springs, or would they be able to go straight across etc?
And that's not even getting into if with 2 springs would I need to do the triangular positioning of the springs, or would they be able to go straight across etc?
BeyondAntares
Well-Known Member
I have a Kiesel Vader VM8 that has a multiscale neck length of 26.5-27.5" and I'm struggling to find an ideal string gauge to suit my playing. I've currently strung it with 10-42 + 64 + 80
My most comfortable setup has been on a 25.5" scale neck, with 10-52 (skinny top, heavy bottom) gauges tuned down a step. However, on a 26.5-27.5 scale I think a 10 gauge has too much tension.
Should I consider a 9.5 gauge? Should I consider lighter gauge strings for the 7 and 8? Perhaps a 60 + 74?
Edit: Just noticed Tosin Abasi uses NYXL9.5 sets with a 74 for the 8th on his Abasi Larada 8's (25.5-27.5) tuned to standard with 8th dropped to F.
My most comfortable setup has been on a 25.5" scale neck, with 10-52 (skinny top, heavy bottom) gauges tuned down a step. However, on a 26.5-27.5 scale I think a 10 gauge has too much tension.
Should I consider a 9.5 gauge? Should I consider lighter gauge strings for the 7 and 8? Perhaps a 60 + 74?
Edit: Just noticed Tosin Abasi uses NYXL9.5 sets with a 74 for the 8th on his Abasi Larada 8's (25.5-27.5) tuned to standard with 8th dropped to F.
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If you've got a multi-scaled and/or using a non-standard tuning, I wouldn't bother with an off-the shelf pack of strings -- use one of the many tension calculators.
Right now, my favorite is StringJoy's Tension Calculator. For a multi-scale, each scale length will increase by:
[lengthOfLongestScale - lengthOfShortestScale]/[numberOfStrings - 1]Start with the tension you like on your thinnest string, then adjust the gauges so that the next thicker string is just barely at a higher tension. This will automatically give you a "Skinny Top, Heavy Bottom" set. Since you liked 10's at 25.5", start with a string that gives you about 17.8# tension, then gradually increase the tension as you go up gauges. I've been very happy with StringJoy strings, and their custom packs are not tremendously more expensive. Also, their tension calculator will auto-load the shopping cart with the chosen strings.
If you are using pre-packaged string sets, as your post implies, that is why you are 'struggling'. (This applies to monoscale and standard tunings also.)
The only way to achieve your 'ideal' is to individually optimise each string gauge by repeated trial-and-error adjustment, using custom sets of single strings.
After just a few string order iterations you will naturally converge on your ideal set, there will be no 'struggle'.
Part of the point of multiscale is to get away with a thinner gauge on the low end, which sounds crisper and brighter.
But I'll echo what @ixlramp said that pre-packaged strings are not usually very well balanced, nor thought out with extended scale necks in mind. I've been ordering my strings in custom gauges for over two decades now and I'll never go back unless individual strings somehow become unobtainable.
But I'll echo what @ixlramp said that pre-packaged strings are not usually very well balanced, nor thought out with extended scale necks in mind. I've been ordering my strings in custom gauges for over two decades now and I'll never go back unless individual strings somehow become unobtainable.
onefingersweep
Well-Known Member
If you want to play in D-standard and increase you skill on the guitar check out Michael Romeo (Symphony X) and Muhammed Suizmez (Necrophagist). There you have some really cool songs to learn in that tuning.
If you increase the string size you should set up the guitar for it. Sometimes you can be lucky if you go up just a little bit in size. It's usually worse if you go to smaller strings since they will be too low on the first fret. Then you will need a new nut. If you go to heavier guage, worst case scenario you need to file it a little bit.
BeyondAntares
Well-Known Member
Thanks, everyone. I went down a string gauge rabit hole, experimented with different gauges and finally landed on what @CanserDYI and @bostjan mentioned. The key benefit of multiscales is to support thinner gauges and I was surprised by how light I could go. I've gone from playing stock 1052 skinny top, heavy bottoms to standard 1044.
With my kiesel, I modelled the gauges after the Strandberg stock gauges and found the tension too much and the lower strings rattle too much. Having gone down from 0.084 to 0.080, 0.076 and finally settled on the stock standard 0.074.
I did this with my other guitars and I don't know if it's my old age, but I find I get a better tone and ease of playability with a lighter gauges. This may seem odd to most, but I found different gutiars sounded better with different gauge strings, even if they're by the same manufacturer.
* Solar V1.7 - 25.5" 7 string tuned down a step: I went from 10-52 + 64 to 10-46+59
* Solar E2.7 - 25.5" 7 string tuned down a step: I kept the 10-52+64 setup which felt quite slinky and flexible under the fingers
* Kiesel, 26.0-27.5" 8 string down a step: I went from a 1046+64+80 to 1046+56+74. I'm able to bringe the string action down to 5/64 (2mm) - 3/64 (1.2mm). Though I'm trying to get the low end lower to about 4/64
For the strandberg, I'll look into similar setup to the kiesel being 9.4 - 44+56+74
Thanks everyone!
jwade
Doooooooooom
I'm about to buy a new guitar, it will be the first 26.5" scale I've owned and more significantly the first high-end 7 string with a trem I've owned.
I don't know which direction to go with respect to tension. Do I go lighter than I would usually prefer for a fixed bridge, or heavier? I know that so much of this stuff is subjective, but is there a general starting point? The Ibanez site says it comes with a 10-59 set tuned ADGFCAD, but that sounds super light.
I don't know which direction to go with respect to tension. Do I go lighter than I would usually prefer for a fixed bridge, or heavier? I know that so much of this stuff is subjective, but is there a general starting point? The Ibanez site says it comes with a 10-59 set tuned ADGFCAD, but that sounds super light.
Neon_Knight_
Well-Known Member
I'm guessing you're looking at the Prestige RGDR4327? I'd be happy with 10-59 strings for that, but it would be equivalent to using 9-42 gauge on a 6-string in E Standard (my preference). If you use 10-46 in E standard, then you would likely prefer slightly thicker strings (i.e. 11 on the high string instead of 10).
It's common for people to go one gauge lighter for a floating trem compared to a fixed bridge. Plenty would go with the same gauge for both bridge types, but never heavier for a floating trem.
As a rough rule, I would do the following to keep my string tensions similar to what I have for my E standard setup:
1" increase to scale length = reduce strings by half a gauge
Tuning 1 step lower = increase strings by a whole gauge
Ibanez has routinely sold 25.5" scale 7-strings in BEADGBE tuning with 9-54 strings over the years, which is consistent with the 9-44 they put on their 25.5" guitars for E standard tuning (with added 54 for the low B) and consistent with the 12-54 that I use on a 25.5" 6-string RG (with Edge trem) in B standard.
On this basis, 10-59 would be in the right ballpark for a 25.5" 7-string in ADGFCAD tuning. With the 26.5" scale length, the string tension will be slightly higher than you'd have on an Ibanez 7-string (RG / Universe) in E standard out of the box.
From what I've read on SS.org and other forums, plenty of people seem to like extra heavy gauge strings for lower tunings. I've never understood this approach, as a lot of these preferences / recommendations give string tensions that are equivalent to using something like 12-54 or 13-60 in E standard. Most of us aren't Stevie Ray Vaughan...
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jwade
Doooooooooom
I actually prefer a bit unbalanced set, for E on my SG I have a 10-50 set, but I'm guessing it's not likely the best setup to compare to a trem.
I think I'm going to hold off on buying a fancy new toy in favor of looking for a used guitar to see if trems are for me.
Chri
-________-
So, I’ve been banging my head on the proverbial wall for a while now. Realistically, I know it’s not possible without buying a special set of strings, but, I’m a bum and like just buying packs, so here goes:
I’ve found my ideal balance for strings and setup/tension overall to be on my 7s that are 27”-25.5” with a 10-59 set tuned to Bb standard/Drop G#. What would be the closest approximation to this on a straight 26.5” tuned a half step lower (A standard/Drop G)?
I’ve found my ideal balance for strings and setup/tension overall to be on my 7s that are 27”-25.5” with a 10-59 set tuned to Bb standard/Drop G#. What would be the closest approximation to this on a straight 26.5” tuned a half step lower (A standard/Drop G)?
