10 more states concidering Immigration Laws!!!!

[Aurochs34]

... You mean like the constitution already says?

... You mean like Hitler did with the Jews in Germany?

... You mean like the U.S. did to Japanese Americans?

Yes, lets make laws so policemen can walk up to random people and demand to see their documentation. That sounds good. Only who do you think they're going to do that to? Mexicans. These laws are giving police officers the RIGHT to be racist fucks.

Yeah, sounds GREAT

Listen, I'm not going to try to defend this (sorry Dusty) because I don't completely agree with it...however, large profiling issues definitely exist with these laws.
A couple weeks ago a Californian CITIZEN (truck driver as I recall) was passing through Arizona and was pulled over. He was arrested and detained for not having his birth certificate. He was held until his wife or someone could provide his birth certificate so he could be released.
No one carries their goddamn birth certificate, because it's never been (nor should it ever be) required. This alone makes this bill unconstitutional and in dire need of revision in my opinion.
On top of that, I do not see how one can be trained to enforce this law without happening to pull over the brown guy instead of the white one, when they both may have 'rolled through that stop'.
I'm not saying police are racist or some stupid ass thing like that. I'm just saying that you're not going to see a white guy pulled over and ARRESTED for not having his papers, let alone even asked for them in the first place...even though he may one of those Norwegians sneaking in here!
Really though, that's profiling in itself.

This isn't easy shit, and it sure as hell won't be resolved by some sweeping legislation that essentially requires an officer to demand more than is constitutional from the Mexican-looking guy.

The problem is with the bill, not the police...just as always.

 

[gunshow86de]

texas is considering?
im fucked

Why, are you here illegally?

 

[orb451]

Say it with me guys: profiling is just a tool.

Profiling is *JUST* a tool.

Nothing more. Nothing less. If profiling did not work they wouldn't use it. It's not an end in and of itself. Just a tool that they rely on to get their job done. If it walks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck, chances are, it's probably a duck. No matter how much PC bullshit you throw at it. No matter how much you candy-coat it. And for every poor, sad, sorry sack of shit that gets tossed in with the bad apples, there's truckload after truckload of turds that still need to be flushed.

Let the cops do their jobs, if they fuck up, let the chips fall where they may.

 

[jymellis]

i would like to add something to this! keep in mind im 75% native american. so now,america. the great melting pot is gonna close the borders huh. so the white people that are illegal immigrants here wanna close the borders. mainly because of mexicans. last time i looked at a map mexico is the same land mass as northern america. so,since a bunch of white immigrants made a fake border on land that they stole,people native to this contenent are not allowed to come here? wow. and why? because they work 2 40hr jobs for less than whites? beacause they will work for less in worse conditions than whites? pretty fuckin sad if you ask me. and as far as police NOT being allowed to walk up to you and ask for id? YES THEY CAN! its called a field check, its covered under the probable cause law (my mom was a cop )

 

[ECGuitars]

i would like to add something to this! keep in mind im 75% native american. so now,america. the great melting pot is gonna close the borders huh. so the white people that are illegal immigrants here wanna close the borders. mainly because of mexicans. last time i looked at a map mexico is the same land mass as northern america. so,since a bunch of white immigrants made a fake border on land that they stole,people native to this contenent are not allowed to come here? wow. and why? because they work 2 40hr jobs for less than whites? beacause they will work for less in worse conditions than whites? pretty fuckin sad if you ask me. and as far as police NOT being allowed to walk up to you and ask for id? YES THEY CAN! its called a field check, its covered under the probable cause law (my mom was a cop )

Except, that all of these settlers who "stole" this land that "belonged" to the natives developed the United States and Canada into what it is today. I'm not racist in any way I have native friends and family but I really think that that is quite a moot point. I think its great that that law or reform is being introduced, border hoppers are stealing jobs from well deserving people and seem to be causing a shit load of trouble for a ton of people. Its pretty fucking stupid that people can do that. Like it was said before, Would you want some ILLEGAL immigrant coming on your lawn and pitching a tent on land YOU pay for?

 

[orb451]

i would like to add something to this! keep in mind im 75% native american. so now,america. the great melting pot is gonna close the borders huh. so the white people that are illegal immigrants here wanna close the borders. mainly because of mexicans. last time i looked at a map mexico is the same land mass as northern america. so,since a bunch of white immigrants made a fake border on land that they stole,people native to this contenent are not allowed to come here? wow. and why? because they work 2 40hr jobs for less than whites? beacause they will work for less in worse conditions than whites? pretty fuckin sad if you ask me. and as far as police NOT being allowed to walk up to you and ask for id? YES THEY CAN! its called a field check, its covered under the probable cause law (my mom was a cop )

Jym you know I love ya, and I respect your roots and respect your opinion, but I don't think they're saying they're closing the border arbitrarily. Fact is, the border is there. We can argue about how it got there, who fucked over who to get it and so on but that's probably a thread for another time.

I don't think people, anyone, is saying that immigrants shouldn't come here. I think they're saying (and I'm among those saying it) is that they should be coming here LEGALLY. They need to wait in line like everyone else. See, I don't believe being from *insert country name here* makes anyone special or *better* than anyone else. That being said, there's a process for becoming a US citizen, and these people have, by and large, ignored that process en mass. You could argue that it's too costly, or takes too much time and I'd agree that the process should be fixed. But, that does not eliminate these people's responsibilities. It does not mean that they just *get a pass*.

Millions of Europeans came to this country and for the most part, they funneled through Ellis Island. They waited in lines, they had their names taken from them and it was a whole lot worse once they were in America than they were told coming over. Yet, they survived. Without a great deal of welfare. Without a great deal of handouts. Without expecting everyone to bend to their every beck and call. Without expecting everyone already here to learn *their* language.

Sink or swim.

They swam.

Because of employers eager to exploit them, because of a nanny state that caters to their every need, because of lazy federal law enforcement agencies and because states were left impotent in enforcing the laws, either out of laziness, budgets, feelings or whatever, you had a recipe for disaster. Mexico's government has been a sham for as long as I can remember.

Honestly, I don't blame the people for wanting a better life for themselves and I don't think a lot of people do. I blame them for coming here and expecting us to feed, clothe, protect and employ them without having to go through the process. If someone cuts in line in front of you at the bank, would you not stop them and possibly, politely, ask them to head to the back of the line? If someone starts camping on your property, property that YOU pay for and maintain, would you not ask them to pay their fair share, or get the fuck off?

If you would, you're a better man than I, because I couldn't do that. And maybe it is time for an epic thread on how Native Americans were royally fucked over, but this issue of immigration isn't about that. It isn't about oppressing po' brown folk for the fuck of it. Arizona is in dire straits financially, as is California where I live. Something needs to be done about illegal immigration, this is just one step, and to me anyway, it's a step in the right direction.

 

[jymellis]

. I blame them for coming here and expecting us to feed, clothe, protect and employ them without having to go through the process. .

if they are illegal they cant get on welfare most of the illegals work more than "actual"americans.

 

[wlfers]

Does anyone here know how Mexico treats its southern border to Central/Southern Americans?

People should apply their human rights attitude toward every situation. Especially ones that don't affect them.

That being said, none of my paternal family is a US Citizen, but they have legally been residing here since the 60's and have the documentation to prove it. Too bad the self righteous train doesn't stop by to their defense every time they get called "Old Nazis" for being elderly and having German accents.

 

[jymellis]

Jym you know I love ya, and I respect your roots and respect your opinion, .

forgot to add

 

[MorbidTravis]

florida should hop on the band wagon.

 

[orb451]

Actually out here in SoCal a lot of the illegal immigrants game the system to get benefits. My wife is a social worker and handles Spanish speaking (READ: Latino) families involved in child abuse and domestic violence. What ends up happening is that the father beats the mom, someone calls the cops, my wife gets called in to investigate, dad goes to jail, mom's got 2 kids, is here illegally and has no way to support herself. So since she can't get benefits directly, but her kids can, she collects on their behalf and pockets the $$$. The kids suffer, mom doesn't have to work and in most cases pumps out a few more kids to increase her monthly income by whomever is willing.

I agree that *some* are here to work, and work their asses off. Though in AZ and Cali, that's more the exception than the rule and it's them (the illegals), the employers that exploit them and the system that panders to them that keeps all this in motion. If we could start by screening the convicted felons out of the lot, then offer conditional amnesty to the rest, I'd be all for it, but as in the other thread, the amnesty is conditional and not just a free pass to come in and sit on your ass.

 

[jymellis]

Except, that all of these settlers who "stole" this land that "belonged" to the natives developed the United States and Canada into what it is today. I'm not racist in any way I have native friends and family but I really think that that is quite a moot point. I think its great that that law or reform is being introduced, border hoppers are stealing jobs from well deserving people and seem to be causing a shit load of trouble for a ton of people. Its pretty fucking stupid that people can do that. Like it was said before, Would you want some ILLEGAL immigrant coming on your lawn and pitching a tent on land YOU pay for?

i still dont understand how are they STEALING jobs? i also havent seen many immigrants camped out on peoples front lawns. a couple homeless bums maybe, but not immigrants that supposedly STOLE a job from someone.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

i still dont understand how are they STEALING jobs? i also havent seen many immigrants camped out on peoples front lawns. a couple homeless bums maybe, but not immigrants that supposedly STOLE a job from someone.

I think the term "stole" isn't exactly on point, and they [illegal immigrants] don't share all the blame for it, some definitely falls on those who hire illegals, but try looking for a food industry, construction, or general labor job out here and you'll see what some of us mean.

As far as seeing illegal immigrants "camping out" just go to any home improvement, hardware, or furniture store in the valley and you'll see dozens of illegals.

 

[jymellis]

I think the term "stole" isn't exactly on point, and they [illegal immigrants] don't share all the blame for it, some definitely falls on those who hire illegals, but try looking for a food industry, construction, or general labor job out here and you'll see what some of us mean.

As far as seeing illegal immigrants "camping out" just go to any home improvement, hardware, or furniture store in the valley and you'll see dozens of illegals.

this is the last time im going to post here because there are so many different opinions and im getting neg repped for not agreeing lol. seems alot of people disagree on who the illegal immigrants are and who should be on stolen land. so a bunch of illegal immigrants are working in the food,contruction, and labor fields. so what? im sur ethat white people applied but got beaten by a few mexicans for the job. theres a reason im sure. if they werent more qualified or willing to do more work for less than a white person or american than in my opinion the WON the job1 not stole it! theres a reason they where hired, its not like the person that hired them felt sorry for them and hired them instead of an american. and as for the camping out at hardware stores or home improvement stores. i constantly see amricans at wal mart camped out in campers and its considered ok. wal mart even had a commercial a few years ago promoting camping in their lots.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

this is the last time im going to post here because there are so many different opinions and im getting neg repped for not agreeing lol. seems alot of people disagree on who the illegal immigrants are and who should be on stolen land. so a bunch of illegal immigrants are working in the food,contruction, and labor fields. so what? im sur ethat white people applied but got beaten by a few mexicans for the job. theres a reason im sure. if they werent more qualified or willing to do more work for less than a white person or american than in my opinion the WON the job1 not stole it! theres a reason they where hired, its not like the person that hired them felt sorry for them and hired them instead of an american. and as for the camping out at hardware stores or home improvement stores. i constantly see amricans at wal mart camped out in campers and its considered ok. wal mart even had a commercial a few years ago promoting camping in their lots.

Firstly, I'm not negging you Jym, just for the record.

It has nothing to do with qualifications, it's all about the fact that the illegal immigrants will work for significantly less, and follow directions unquestionably, because they A) don't have other options, and B) they need quick, off the books money, and C) they won't make waves for fear of detention and deportation. They did not win the job because they are more qualified, or because they are harder workers. It's all about money. By willing to work for pennies, they drive down the pay scale of similar jobs to the point that even if a legal citizen (notice how I don't say white) were to get the job, it simply would not pay enough to earn a living.

As for camping, I was not implying they were sleeping outside these establishments, but they are simply sitting around waiting to do odd jobs, which for the record, I don't really have a problem with. Until of course a general contractor pulls up and offers a few guys $50 to do a quick job, just so he doesn't have to pay others, legitimate workers a decent wage.

Then of course there's the side of things that you aren't even considering such as welfare, food stamps, and education. Why should you and I, as tax payers, pay for illegal immigrants' food, shelter, schooling, and medical care? Especially if that illegal is little more than a lazy baby factory.

 

[jymellis]

Firstly, I'm not negging you Jym, just for the record.

It has nothing to do with qualifications, it's all about the fact that the illegal immigrants will work for significantly less, and follow directions unquestionably, because they A) don't have other options, and B) they need quick, off the books money. They did not win the job because they are more qualified, or because they are harder workers. It's all about money.

By willing to work for pennies, they drive down the pay scale of similar jobs to the point that even if a legal citizen (notice how I don't say white) were to get the job, it simply would not pay enough to earn a living.

As for camping, I was not implying they were sleeping outside these establishments, but they are simply sitting around waiting to do odd jobs, which for the record, I don't really have a problem with. Until of course a general contractor pulls up and offers a few guys $50 to do a quick job, just so he doesn't have to pay others, legitimate workers a decent wage.

Then of course there's the side of things that you aren't even considering such as welfare, food stamps, and education. Why should you and I, as tax payers, pay for illegal immigrants' food, shelter, schooling, and medical care? Especially if that illegal is little more than a lazy baby factory.

point taken

forgot to add, my posts may be misunderstood and im by NO means racist or prejudiced. my wifes mom came here from germany in the late 60s and her fathers parents came from hungary. its just this whole "you cant come here" thing kinda rubs me the wrong way.

 

[Syrinx]

I think California needs it the worst..... cost of living and the amount of jobs here are not good right now at all. Our economy can hardly handle the people already here, so if the population keeps growing......

Good thing they are boycotting Arizona now. That should help the financial problems.

 

[Syrinx]

Enough already with the knee-jerk reactions to this law. Get some facts before you invoke Godwin's Law and start ranting about how evil all the cops are in AZ and elsewhere.

Tell that to the guy who is here legally and spent 2 weeks in jail for a bad right turn. He didn't have his drivers license on him at the time but still presented multiple forms of legal documentation and still was arrested.

 

[jymellis]

Good thing they are boycotting Arizona now. That should help the financial problems.

what? what is california boycotting from arizona (i think thats how you put it)?

 

[MaxOfMetal]

Tell that to the guy who is here legally and spent 2 weeks in jail for a bad right turn. He didn't have his drivers license on him at the time but still presented multiple forms of legal documentation and still was arrested.

Detention still does not equal genocide. The lame Nazism comparisons HAVE to stop it devalues the destruction of well over six million lives.

Also, this happened over two years ago.

There will always be racial profiling and officers willing to spin the law how they see it. That's an inconvenient truth, but that can't deter us, as a state or nation walk away from this issue like we collectively have been for years now. We can't let a small handful of cases over the course of a few years dictate future policy with as heavy a weight.

Is what happened to Mr. Martinez-Villaman terrible? Yes. Does it show obvious flaws in our system? Yes. Should this case be looked at as the rule, and not the exception? NO.