Chinese Fakemachine build thread

[Prophetable]

The builder's intent has nothing to do with the buyer's motivations. Just because that is why Doug makes his guitars the way he does, and some people buy them, doesn't mean that motivation will hold true for every person.

 

[fastmerc]

One of the biggest things I have heard about the copies, other than using sub standard woods and parts, are that the scale lengths quite often wrong and the bridges out of place. Then the guitar can never be intonated properly.

 

[Le Jeff]

Well, that's just it - the Blackmachine is supposed to be a guitar essentially stripped of all the eye candy, and all the effort in making it is put into good woods and attention to detail so it plays really well. So it's weird to want a copy of it where those things are not paid attention to. Then you end up with a guitar that doesn't have a lot of fancy looks PLUS it doesn't play well.

I apologize if this seems rude, but I have to correct you. The way a guitar plays and the woods which are selected to construct said guitar have absolutely no correlation. Nor do the construction techniques or the finish have any impact on playability. The combination of nut height and neck relief; level frets and and a proper set bridge mean more to how a guitar plays than anything. Any competent tech can testify to the fact that the difference between the Epiphone he just set up and the BM he changed the strings on comes down to numerous preferences and and the perceived differences in quality between instruments (brands). Yes, the choice woods in the BM will help it achieve a tonal complexity that the Epiphone can only achieve if every planet in our solar system aligned at the moment of it's conception, but who really cares? I rarely stop and whip out the oscilloscope while I'm watching someone jam to determine if what I like about what I'm hearing is in the overtones. I know good music comes from the fingers and, from experience, that having nice gear does nothing to make a crap player good...

So, why are detractors posting in this thread instead of quietly lurking? The man has his guitar commissioned and timber has been cut - there's no turning back. Whether he receives a guitar that's considerably better than expected or something that's only fit for firewood, what's done is done. I, for one, am interested to (yet again) see how one of these semi-custom direct-from-China guitars turns out and I hope the OP only the best luck possible - which means I hope he's happy with the guitar he gets. If he isn't, he paid a few hundred dollars to keep us all entertained for a bit. I, for one, am always so grateful for threads like this that I'll come in and risk being flamed to death to staunch the flaming. If you get your yah-yahs by being a detractor, then detract.

Sorry if this is an incoherent mess. Boxed wine is a bee-otch.

tl:dr?

Aesthetically, a BM has a certain something. If you don't understand why someone could like the style so much that they don't care about the substance then you've obviously never spent a few hours infatuated with a porn star... Most of us rock "mediocre" guitars on the daily because looking at them makes us want to touch them. Yes, I love my HAM90, but my Schecter is just so damn sexy to me.

Peace!

 

[schwiz]

To me, this is no different than ordering a BM style guitar from a small builder. The only difference is that the builder is in China, and not closer to you. It's companies like this that create competition in the market.

If you didn't know, you can message these builders and ask for certain timbers, and they will tell you what they have. Is their quality of macassar ebony any different than the quality of BM's? It could be, but I hardly doubt it will be noticeably different. The biggest difference you get with these guitars vs. a custom shop guitar that you're paying a lot of money for is play-ability. Just like the poster above me stated. These Chinese guitars aren't going to come setup correctly. Some may even have high frets, bowed necks, etc. This is the chance that you take when you order a Chinese guitar over a custom shop. You're also more than likely getting crappier hardware. This is no different from an Agile guitar for the most part. Agile's are built overseas and sent to Rondo with little quality control going into them; Rondo is just the distributor. The only difference is you get name brand hardware.

OP: I'm interested to see what sort of setup you need to perform to get this thing playable. Subbd.

 

[splinter8451]

To me, this is no different than ordering a BM style guitar from a small builder. The only difference is that the builder is in China, and not closer to you. It's companies like this that create competition in the market.

This man. Speaks truth.

Although, we used to see all these kinds of posts in the early Blackmachine copy threads too it is unavoidable.

 

[Steinmetzify]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duKz8fAr_Pk

Did a little digging and found this youtube video where a guy uses a Chinese blackmachine copy/fake. (30 seconds into the video) he even replied to a comment saying it wasn't too bad but you never know.

That guitar is actually for sale in our Classifieds by that same guy, along with his Mercer BM copy. I'd pick it up if it weren't in the UK; been interested in these for a minute.

EDIT: that one is gone but the Mercer is still here.

 

[Lorcan Ward]

Frankly I don't understand why BM is so highly praised in the first place. Doug picks his materials carefully and the builds a super-basic axe which he charges an arm and a leg for.

I've never understood this way of thinking. You don't see why a guitar is good. You can't just look at a picture of a guitar and decide wether its good or not. You have to play it, feel it, hear it, get to know its tone, its attack, how it responds to your playing and technique.

Thats how you find out how good a guitar is.

I think what he's saying is that in this case it's all but guaranteed the guitar won't play well (or as well as something you could buy from GC), but it will look like an expensive guitar. Since the fundamental nature of a guitar is to played, it's weird to have low expectations for its performance in that department, but want it to resemble a guitar that is known for playing exceptionally well. Then he's just copying looks for looks sake, and sacrificing quality. That's OK, but it's just not what we would typically think of for priorities in a guitar purchase.

You have to a admire this Chinese company for jumping on the Blackmachine bandwagon by offering a cheap interpretation that people will buy knowing it will play like absolute crap.

 

[jwade]

The way a guitar plays and the woods which are selected to construct said guitar have absolutely no correlation. Nor do the construction techniques or the finish have any impact on playability.

This is an incredibly inaccurate statement. Probably one of the most inaccurate of all the various ridiculously wrong statements ever made on this forum.

 

[Lorcan Ward]

^Its funny that the guitar and luthier he is trying to demean made guys like him eat their words ten years ago when he proved that any many other ridiculous guitar myths wrong.

 

[electriceye]

To me, this is no different than ordering a BM style guitar from a small builder. The only difference is that the builder is in China, and not closer to you. It's companies like this that create competition in the market.

If you didn't know, you can message these builders and ask for certain timbers, and they will tell you what they have. Is their quality of macassar ebony any different than the quality of BM's? It could be, but I hardly doubt it will be noticeably different. The biggest difference you get with these guitars vs. a custom shop guitar that you're paying a lot of money for is play-ability. Just like the poster above me stated. These Chinese guitars aren't going to come setup correctly. Some may even have high frets, bowed necks, etc. This is the chance that you take when you order a Chinese guitar over a custom shop. You're also more than likely getting crappier hardware. This is no different from an Agile guitar for the most part. Agile's are built overseas and sent to Rondo with little quality control going into them; Rondo is just the distributor. The only difference is you get name brand hardware.

OP: I'm interested to see what sort of setup you need to perform to get this thing playable. Subbd.

See, this is the type of thinking I just don't understand. The correlation of someone who is, for all intents and purposes, a COUNTERFEITER is NOT the same as a small builder somewhere else. The bottom line is that when you pay these arse clowns money, that is one more push for them to continue doing what they do. Now, are they stealing any customers away from BM? I would hope not. But the temptation is there.

Now, I'm gathering all of my equipment and tools to start building on my own. I have no idea if I'll ever be at the point where I will be able to sell my builds. However, I would never have the balls to make a BM copy or a copy of any other private builder's designs to sell. It's an infringement on someone's work. And, frankly, it's hard enough to survive as a builder. Why would I do something that would, essentially, put my industry (small, independent builders) at risk?

Honestly, I don't care for the reasons put forth by the OP as to why he did this. No, he never would have purchased a BM because of the price. BM didn't lose a sale from him. That doesn't make it right to buy a direct ripoff from some pirate scumbag, because he just gave the counterfeiter financial incentive to continue what he's doing.

 

[Tesla]

If someone is about to spend a serious amount of money on a BM I can't imagine they'll cheap out on a chinese copy instead, so it's not really hurting the BM business.

 

[VBCheeseGrater]

You have to a admire this Chinese company for jumping on the Blackmachine bandwagon by offering a cheap interpretation that people will buy knowing it will play like absolute crap.

..until you spend $150 on a fret level, finish and setup (or do it yourself). Then it should play perfectly fine. Still won't be a BM and will of course lack the craftmanship / materials, etc...but no reason it can't play well unless the neck is bent or some other crazyness.

 

[Le Jeff]

The ambiguity is incredible.

 

[slythy]

I'm interested in the results, looks like it could be a really cool guitar for not a ton of money

 

[schwiz]

See, this is the type of thinking I just don't understand. The correlation of someone who is, for all intents and purposes, a COUNTERFEITER is NOT the same as a small builder somewhere else. The bottom line is that when you pay these arse clowns money, that is one more push for them to continue doing what they do. Now, are they stealing any customers away from BM? I would hope not. But the temptation is there.

Now, I'm gathering all of my equipment and tools to start building on my own. I have no idea if I'll ever be at the point where I will be able to sell my builds. However, I would never have the balls to make a BM copy or a copy of any other private builder's designs to sell. It's an infringement on someone's work. And, frankly, it's hard enough to survive as a builder. Why would I do something that would, essentially, put my industry (small, independent builders) at risk?

Honestly, I don't care for the reasons put forth by the OP as to why he did this. No, he never would have purchased a BM because of the price. BM didn't lose a sale from him. That doesn't make it right to buy a direct ripoff from some pirate scumbag, because he just gave the counterfeiter financial incentive to continue what he's doing.

If they put "Blackmachine Style" in their description, would that make it all better? Not going to start a pissing match, as you're entitled to your own opinion, but I'm pretty sure the Chinese aren't the first ones to sell Blackmachine replica's or build guitars that look identical to Blackmachines. But, I get your point. I never said that I'd buy one... just stating that I don't see what the big fuss is about.

 

[manu80]

Anyways. He wants to try it, why debating? I would give it a shot too
. It will be a big debate anyways. like gibson quality, like 300 bucks axes that are good ......and there's a part of personnal appreciation everywhere..
It can't be surely as good as a 2000 dollars guitars, but it can be good/ok too, at least we can have the benefit of a doubt. Not necessarly a piece of shit.
Any news?

 

[cubix]

At least it doesn't have a freakin logo on it. However using anyones intelectual property is just plain wrong and that's the main reason I will never support this. I know what it's like when someone is copying Your work and making a business on Your designs, most of the people who don't care probably never created anything with their own 2 hands let alone have their ideas stolen. It's comming short of someone stealing Your songs, by just changing the lyrics.

 

[kevdes93]

hey gents, thought id pop in here to show my chinamachine.

for the price? great. just needed set up stuff typical of any new guitar and a fret crown

any questions feel free to ask!

 

[mortbopet]

hey gents, thought id pop in here to show my chinamachine.

for the price? great. just needed set up stuff typical of any new guitar and a fret crown

any questions feel free to ask!

Nice! How's the weight of it? Anything you would recommend me to communicate about with the seller, before my guitar is finished?

 

[kevdes93]

i actually didnt talk with him at all prior to ordering it, it was kind of a blind purchase but it turned out very well. if id known you could get ebony for not much extra i would have though!

keep in mind though, you will 100% need to have it professionally set up and have the frets crowned/leveled/polished but thats something many of us have done to any new guitars anyway

EDIT: heavier than i expected. its most definitely some kind of northern ash as opposed to swamp ash but thats minor, i actually prefer the sound of northern ash