EMG or Fishmans?

[HeHasTheJazzHands]

Whoops wrong thread

 

[TheShreddinHand]

Strandbergs don't seem to do well with fishmans. They do ok with passives though. But I've found most pick ups sound a bit hallow in their guitars.

Right, I did feel the sbergs sounded hollow. But I’d also say that I just felt like the moderns were a jack of all trades and master of none. If I wanted the active sound, EMGs do it better. And passive sound, it’s a no contest to stick with dimarzios for me.

 

[TheBolivianSniper]

So current signal chain in Pro Tools (with some tweaks for VSTs) is the Ignite Tyrant Screamer, GGate, Nalex Uber, NadIR, EMG81TWX.

Holy FUCK.

It's not the same as a real Uberschall but damn if it doesn't sound pretty close. Massive wall of sound, huge low mod chunk with a nasty high end fizz and bite, and the bottom end somehow is pretty close to the signature Uberschall sub-bass response. I have so much bass and low end dialed in and it's really really tight, as in modern metal tight, while still being able to be heard in a mix and staying bright. I don't know what in the chain is making it sound ridiculously good but I plugged that all in and was laughing my balls off for how great it sounded.

I'll record some clips once I'm home and not using the shitty broken interface I stole from the school and non-audio headphones.

 

[TheBolivianSniper]

So I decided to bite the bullet and record with a busted interface. Idk how much that affects the sound quality but it certainly didn't help my playing. Here's some shitty riffs I tossed together tonight. First is using the Ignite Emissary for a tighter, sorta metalcore sound and the second is with the Nalex Uber for a chunky, thicker groove sort of tone. Really gotta figure out what's making all that hiss, and practice more.

Sorry for the poor playing quality, third riff uses the PA2 and fourth riff (so the last 2 of the first section) uses the RPC on halfway. All 81TWX, not split.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mRzqePO1z5Vs9xz1vugj7iKv2Hk_r7zm/view?usp=sharing

 

[Flappydoodle]

Far from shitting on a paying customer bud. Give it a break!
I've contributed plenty of helpful information to this thread. Customer service does not "suck" and Fluence is a new technology so It's gonna take a minute to get everyone 80 years worth of wiring schemes. We are devoted to fulfilling that!

Why don’t Fishman just make a modular quick connect system where it all just works together? Does EMG have total patent ownership of that idea? Seems like such a no-brainer.

 

[Andromalia]

Does EMG have total patent ownership of that idea? Seems like such a no-brainer.

Unlikely, since Blackouts use the same thing. TBH it seems a no brainer for all pickups if they'd agree to a standard, but I suppose some brands would profit more than others from a unisversal swap system, so not everybody will be onboard.

 

[diagrammatiks]

Unlikely, since Blackouts use the same thing. TBH it seems a no brainer for all pickups if they'd agree to a standard, but I suppose some brands would profit more than others from a unisversal swap system, so not everybody will be onboard.

the other problem is that almost no 2 fishmans have the same connectors on the back. they are a long way from being able to have an easy quick connect.

 

[slavboi_delight]

I've spent countless hours in sessions analyzing/listening to the delta between so many "coveted" wire wound pickups from other manufacturers. To be honest, there are some that sound terrific and most (same brand/same pickup) that don't sound nearly as close. When you think about it, winding a pickup is a very inconsistent process and it shows when you shuttle/swap them into the same guitar quickly. All I can say is that the 48 layer precision coil eliminates the inconsistency of windings, has perfect phase alignment, is noiseless, versatile and for Fishman, removes the "mystery" behind all the wiring "myths" that other companies sell you on with clever marketing. It's fine if you just don't like the sound, but in every case where we have A/B against bench mark "iconic" pickups, Fishman matches and far exceeded that tone. Plus, they can be fine-tuned in real-time without guessing. This truly is a revolutionary technology and there's reasons why big artists "have to have them."
I know that some of you will say "this guy is a plant or he works for the company" but I would genuinely like you to know that I'm a 20 year veteran in the industry being a musician/producer first. (Unearth) My whole musical career, I couldn't stand "artist reps and product managers from companies" showing up to my shows & feeding me a bunch lines. When I found the Fluence technology, I tossed those feelings aside and "offered to help" (no pay) to show the world how amazing this technology really is. I honestly didn't need to work for the company (financially speaking) but did because I'm reminded constantly how incredibly revolutionary this technology is. If you just "don't like the sound" I understand and there's plenty of great pickups on the market that you can play. It's just disheartening to hear "it stinks and the customer service sucks" narrative when I can tell you first hand that Fishman support reps and product team works really hard. Anyway, I hope this was informative and if you have any questions, I'm around!

Well I do respect you as musician a ton, but unfortunately the Fishman customer service does not shine when it comes to answering questions about diagrams via mail.
I own 2 Fishman sets and I love them, about to buy the next one. I mailed DiMarzio one time and they answered in a 12h timespan (8 hour time difference not included).
I'm not saying your cs is shit, but never underestimate the weight of a good customer rep when it comes to technical questions.
Now I'm not dumb, I know my way around a soldering iron but sometimes with new products, questions emerge and since we do not work with you and/or one of the fishman techs on a personal base, us peasants need to rely on your answers, provided by your customer service.

 

[InfernalVortex]

So a company's customer support is in "shambles" because you can't read and interpret a wiring diagram? I'm looking on their site now, seeme like there is plenty of variations to choose from. ‍

Good lord...

Just got a new (straight from the retailer, first owner, 2020 model) Schecter with a Fluence pickup in it that failed after a week prompting me to evaluate my options.

First I saw their customer service comments discouraging end user installation, and after reading through this thread it just confirms even more to me that I don't need to spend any money on Fishman pickups again.

 

[Kensusiunearth]

Well I do respect you as musician a ton, but unfortunately the Fishman customer service does not shine when it comes to answering questions about diagrams via mail.
I own 2 Fishman sets and I love them, about to buy the next one. I mailed DiMarzio one time and they answered in a 12h timespan (8 hour time difference not included).
I'm not saying your cs is shit, but never underestimate the weight of a good customer rep when it comes to technical questions.
Now I'm not dumb, I know my way around a soldering iron but sometimes with new products, questions emerge and since we do not work with you and/or one of the fishman techs on a personal base, us peasants need to rely on your answers, provided by your customer service.

Sorry about your experience but contact customer support and ask for me directly. Let me see if I can help you out

 

[slavboi_delight]

Sorry about your experience but contact customer support and ask for me directly. Let me see if I can help you out

Thank you for replying. Much appreciated.
I found a guitar tech who is a mad genius and he helped me alot with wiring and so on.

 

[Stuck_in_a_dream]

Thank you for replying. Much appreciated.
I found a guitar tech who is a mad genius and he helped me alot with wiring and so on.

As I might have mentioned b4, I can solder but not really that great and I suck reading any wiring diagrams. During the break I decided to install SC sig Fishmans in my Carvin (see avatar). It wasn't too bad, and although I always go for a particular wiring (independent vol-vol & no tone), I was able to figure it out with the help of SD diagrams. Now I think I'm gonna do it myself from now on. I'm working on a wiring diagram and will post it if anyone is interested.

 

[slavboi_delight]

As I might have mentioned b4, I can solder but not really that great and I suck reading any wiring diagrams. During the break I decided to install SC sig Fishmans in my Carvin (see avatar). It wasn't too bad, and although I always go for a particular wiring (independent vol-vol & no tone), I was able to figure it out with the help of SD diagrams. Now I think I'm gonna do it myself from now on. I'm working on a wiring diagram and will post it if anyone is interested.

Yeah I'd be interested!
I do prefer the independent 2 vol no tone configuration as well

 

[Stuck_in_a_dream]

Sure thing, here's what I have:

I added an On-Off-On DPDT switch to coil split inner/outer coils of both pickups. It's pretty straightforward, just follow what Fishman diagram below (I used the config on the bottom of the page), it's totally ind. from the above, well, just connect it to ground, that's all. Here: https://www.fishman.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Fluence_Humbucker_Coil_Tapping.pdf

Overall, I really like the SC set in this guitar, which I always struggled with tbh. Construction-wise, it is immaculate, but albeit having a 5pc neck-thru maple neck & fretboard, it sounded too warm to my ears. EMGs were no good, Pegasus/Sentient were not too bad, but the SC set is just perfect. Neck pickup is bright, but I love the attack on V1, V2 is very PAF passive sounding, much lower output. The bridge OTOH, V1 is like the stereotypical djecnt heavy-on-the-mids almost nothing else tone, it's k, but V2 which is more EVH/brown sound kind of thing is awesome imho.
The coil split sound is really nice, albeit introduces noise in positions 1, 3. To my ears, the outer coils' sound is a hair brighter than the inner coils.

 

[jengofret]

I figured this was probably the best thread to ask in. are fishman's really worth it? I don't want a complex wiring setup, too much to think about when playing. was looking at bareknuckle holy divers, guitar is going to be mostly for 80's cock rock stuff

 

[lewis]

I figured this was probably the best thread to ask in. are fishman's really worth it? I don't want a complex wiring setup, too much to think about when playing. was looking at bareknuckle holy divers, guitar is going to be mostly for 80's cock rock stuff

No, no they are not.
And it's that simple.

They try to be a jack of all trades, but master of none.

The conveluted wiring and inflated prices just are not worth it.

 

[jengofret]

No, no they are not.
And it's that simple.

They try to be a jack of all trades, but master of none.

The conveluted wiring and inflated prices just are not worth it.

thanks, too much youtube crap to go through to get honest opinions. think i'll just get the bareknuckles seems to fit want I want

 

[diagrammatiks]

I figured this was probably the best thread to ask in. are fishman's really worth it? I don't want a complex wiring setup, too much to think about when playing. was looking at bareknuckle holy divers, guitar is going to be mostly for 80's cock rock stuff

I mean they aren't more expensive then the bare knuckles.
I think the classics will actually be very good for what you want.
but the holy divers or the miracle mans will be good too.

 

[lewis]

thanks, too much youtube crap to go through to get honest opinions. think i'll just get the bareknuckles seems to fit want I want

Exactly bro.
I've been guilty of falling victim to the online hype crap too many times.

Now I'm blunt with my findings to help others not fall victim to the same shit I have.

You will not be disappointed with the bareknuckle

 

[slavboi_delight]

thanks, too much youtube crap to go through to get honest opinions. think i'll just get the bareknuckles seems to fit want I want

For real though. I would not rule out the Fishman classics in a premature manner. They do have that cocked sound to them. Pricewise they do not differ from the Bareknuckles. I would definately try to get my hands on them before buying the cat in the bag. Bareknuckle had that same hype few years ago, like Fishman has now. The only thing to consider, is the wiring, but if you can think sort of straight, it does not differ too much from a regular passive wiring.