How do you guys typically record with amp sims? Gain or no gain on your interface?

[Soilent]

I recently bought a Universal Audio Volt 176 interface and I was watching a review on it by Ola Englund. In the video he states that when recording guitars DI like this with an amp sim he just puts it into instrument mode and leaves the interface gain all the way down. For whatever reason it had never occurred to me to do it like this. I've always adjusted the gain on the interface itself and left the input gain on the amp sim at zero. Have I been doing it wrong this whole time? Should I leave the interface at zero and turn up the input on the amp sim instead? Or maybe even not at all? Does it matter either way? lol

Anyway, just curious how you guys typically do it. If you go in with zero gain and then adjust on the amp sim, how much do you turn it up? I'm using Neural DSP Fortin NTS and the way it's setup can be hard to tell if I'm clipping the input or not. Let me know what y'all think.

 

[tedtan]

It only matters if one approach is noisier than the other, in which case go with the quieter one.

As for level, most plugins are looking for an Average level of -18dBFS, with peaks between -6 and -12dBFS. Adjust either your interface gain or amp sim input level so you‘re there and you’re good.

 

[cindarkness]

0 gain on interface, most modern pickups are hot enough anyway. I don't turn anything up in the NDSP plugin, it's pretty much perfect as it is peaking at -6 occasionally.

 

[Emperoff]

I watched that Ola video and tried that for a while. The recorded signals weren't hot enough for me. Same deal with real preamps. I had to run my TriAxis with the volume at noon to get good levels. No one in their right mind would do that connected to a poweramp

So I went back to the good old "just get a decent signal going that doesn't clip" and forgot about it. Audient interfaces have a JFET in the instrument input so it sounds good anyway.

 

[KnightBrolaire]

I just set it to whatever doesn't cause clipping.

Since I mess with both real amps and amp sims I'm constantly fiddling with the input levels.

 

[Soilent]

0 gain on interface, most modern pickups are hot enough anyway. I don't turn anything up in the NDSP plugin, it's pretty much perfect as it is peaking at -6 occasionally.

Yeah, I'm running a Seymour Duncan Nazgul and was very surprised how good it sounded with zero gain on the interface and the plugin. I always thought the signal would be too low, but it sounds pretty nice. I may just record like this from now on. I feel like my older tones were perhaps TOO hot because they sound a bit muddy in comparison.

 

[cindarkness]

Yeah, I'm running a Seymour Duncan Nazgul and was very surprised how good it sounded with zero gain on the interface and the plugin. I always thought the signal would be too low, but it sounds pretty nice. I may just record like this from now on. I feel like my older tones were perhaps TOO hot because they sound a bit muddy in comparison.

If you're overloading the input even with 0 input gain, try lowering the pickups. Worked for me and my tone improved by a lot.

I was on the verge of getting a separate DI for my Audient ID, but someone mentioned this and it's all good now.

 

[Filter]

I recently bought a Universal Audio Volt 176 interface and I was watching a review on it by Ola Englund. In the video he states that when recording guitars DI like this with an amp sim he just puts it into instrument mode and leaves the interface gain all the way down. For whatever reason it had never occurred to me to do it like this. I've always adjusted the gain on the interface itself and left the input gain on the amp sim at zero. Have I been doing it wrong this whole time? Should I leave the interface at zero and turn up the input on the amp sim instead? Or maybe even not at all? Does it matter either way? lol

Anyway, just curious how you guys typically do it. If you go in with zero gain and then adjust on the amp sim, how much do you turn it up? I'm using Neural DSP Fortin NTS and the way it's setup can be hard to tell if I'm clipping the input or not. Let me know what y'all think.

Hey I'm a bit late to this Q but I saw the same Ola review and noticed the same thing about the interface gain. I decided to try it on my Presonus 24c interface. The pick attack sounds much better (i.e 16th note metal riffs) but the chunky palm mutes I was getting before aren't hitting the spot anymore. I tried adjusting the gain in several other places in the software I'm using, i.e. daw input level, ended up sounding boxy and transients colouring the tone. I tried adjusting the input and output of the ampsims again getting unwanted saturation and colouring of the tone. The Ampsims I've tested are (Neural gojira, jst toneforge disruptor and mercuriall audio u530 (engl clone) and the 6160 III based on the EVH 5150 Stealth which is the highest gain ampsim I have.

What to do! Have you had any success, if so what did you end up doing?

 

[profwoot]

I always leave plugin input gain at 0 and adjust the preamp gain on the interface until peaks are at -12 or so. That way when you switch to a different instrument you don't have to mess with each preset, just adjust the preamp gain once.

 

[vejichan]

 

[AwakenTheSkies]

 

[GunpointMetal]

99.999999% of interfaces with an instrument input are designed to be as close to the input of an amplifier/pedalboard with the gain on the interface completely off, and 99.999999% of amp sim software is expecting to see that level coming in. If you were say, switching guitars, and then adjusting your input gain to make them all the same peak/RMS level, then there's no point in switching guitars for the most part. Part of the interaction between an amp (real or digital) is the level coming off a specific pickup and how that relates to playing dynamics.

 

[Cheap]

Passive pickup experience incoming:

I had an Undertone Audio GB Tracker for a hot minute and did a lot of comparisons between that and my thunderbolt 3 apollo hi-z (1Mohm) after being blown away by the UTA DI (enough to be confident enough want to switch to plugins entirely). I needed to trim the input on my plugins, but it was like sending 200% information and being able to taper back to 100% instead of inputting 80% and not being able to make up for the extra 20% as confidently. I compared the UTA level with the level coming in with the hi-z gain set to its default 0 position and found it was ~10dB louder give or take depending on the pickup set. The apollo does start at 10dB though so this could be equivalent to a 20dB gain boost and depending on your interface you'll have to watch for a creeping noise floor.

Since finding that out I've been using my hi-z input and adding 10dB of gain there so I have a healthy DI signal with my weakest pickups (PRS Silver Sky) and then use the plugin input to trim down 10dB since there's definitely an argument to be made as stated already that 99.9% of software companies are looking for that level coming in anyway. Makes it easier to edit too and I haven't experienced any negative effects due to noise floor/etc.

This sounds as good as the Undertone and is more convenient if I'm just using plugins anyway so I can do away with a physical hardware reamp. Lots of positives towards UAD, but I'd think most modern interfaces will be fine at the 0 to +10dB settings so long as it's a 1Mohm input

 

[owlexifry]

what? hell no.
it sounds weak as shit with the interface gain all the way down (passive pickups).

what’s wrong with just having the gain as strong as possible without any clipping. isn’t that how it’s supposed to be done to get the best quality signal? if there’s zero clipping, you’re not actually compressing anything right?

so let’s assume you’ve got the gain set to minimum, and you’re happy with the tone, but if you’re actually able to set it higher without clipping, are you not actually settling for a worse signal/noise ratio?

 

[Filter]

I

what? hell no.
it sounds weak as shit with the interface gain all the way down (passive pickups).

what’s wrong with just having the gain as strong as possible without any clipping. isn’t that how it’s supposed to be done to get the best quality signal? if there’s zero clipping, you’re not actually compressing anything right?

so let’s assume you’ve got the gain set to minimum, and you’re happy with the tone, but if you’re actually able to set it higher without clipping, are you not actually settling for a worse signal/noise ratio?

I agree. There’s videos that show the signal/noise ratio gets worse the lower you set the interface input. And personally, I’ve always felt Ola’s tone sounds flat and lifeless.

Tones I am digging most are Fit for an autopsy’s, Whitechapel and Orbit culture. The best way I can describe what I’m going for is a choked heavy and organic sound.

 

[trem licking]

there is no standard answer here. some interfaces have a low tolerance for high output pickups and will clip with the gain set at 0 on the instrument input. some you can turn it up quite a bit before it will clip. some software wants the signal as close to clipping as possible (evident by the auto-gain feature on some plugins where you strum and it sets the amp sim gain. even with the level close to clipping a lot of them will crank it up a little bit more) and some want it set less. best way to go about this is read the manual on what the amp sim says to do and follow that, but overall i have good luck setting the interface level near clipping and adjusting to the sweet spot in the amp sim

 

[Stiman]

How timely:

 

[Matt08642]

Just my two cents here, but most amp sims I've tried with my MOTU M4 interface sound like shit if the gain is above 0. This is all to taste of course, with a strong exception for things like super clean tones I'm adding a ton of effects to or even bass DI. Here's some samples with the gain at 0, then the gain set to as close to clipping as possible (NeuralDSP Omega Grano):



Adding gain (Especially with NDSP stuff) just becomes "too much" for me. The clip above didn't even have the OD on, but if I do turn it on with gain it becomes an unmanageable mess.

 

[Stiman]

@Matt08642 that tracks pretty well with what John is saying in that video. And looking at the specs for your interface, it looks like it's pretty hot even at 0 gain so your results make sense.

 

[Matt08642]

How timely:

This is a great video explaining it

@Matt08642 that tracks pretty well with what John is saying in that video. And looking at the specs for your interface, it looks like it's pretty hot even at 0 gain so your results make sense.

I think the reason I kept setting levels so high when I first got my interface was because I still had this video in mind:



Basically Misha was using an old ass 2i2 that I guess probably needed the boost vs my interface that absolutely doesn't. Willing to bet a lot of people saw this or similar videos and just carried that nugget forward.