Kemper Profiling Amp Thread

[broangiel]

Every time Kemper releases something really outdated and behind their competition, I just... don't know what to say.

I feel like, as a company, they are constantly trying to play catchup rather than capitalize on what makes them an alternative option for musicians.

If I wanted an Axe Fx or Pod floor unit, I'd buy it. Don't combine half of two of your products and expect me to get all pumped about it, deliver shit on time and with better quality testing and I'll be happy.


As it is, I constantly wonder if I made the wrong decision considering the obsession with catchup makes me feel like my $2.5k rig is constantly out of date...

This is why my interest in the floor Kemper curtailed. I was hoping it would have *something* new (usb audio?). I know people trash Fractal for all of their iterations (though I do think some of the complaining is unwarranted when you look at the reason for some of those updates), but this is just too much the opposite direction.

 

[SenorDingDong]

Yeah, they're just rereleasing the same thing in the pedal board housing, and I'm assuming it'll be about $2k.

So anyone who already owns a Kemper has bo reason to buy, and anyone without has no reason to convert if the original unit didn't sell them outright by now as the tech is still exactly the same.

Well I know ONE company with a board made up of Yes Men.

 

[Lorcan Ward]

Imagine Fractal Audio released a floorboard of the Axe-Fx Ultra in 2019.

Thats what this is the equivalent of. It's crazy how this company has gotten so much use out of the Kemper without ever updating to a Mk2 model or fix bugs that are years old. They didn't even ad features to this floorboard that have been requested before Kemper even went public.

I really enjoyed my Kemper but it felt so outdated physically and power wise 6 years ago when I sold it. It could be another 2-4 years before a Mk2 model at this rate.

 

[SenorDingDong]

Price confirmed at $1,600USD.

I just can't fathom who the fuck is making decisions for this company, and how many people got fired for disagreeing with them. Absolutely a joke to be releasing outdated tech in 2019 with a abomination of a bow on top when you've had over half a decade of testing and revenue-laden free input from your community.

This might be my final straw with Kemper, I'm not one to stay on sinking ships and watch my investments deteriorate so rapidly.

 

[LeviathanKiller]

They'll make this but not a editor application for the existing units (while banning anyone who tries to). What a joke honestly

 

[Lorcan Ward]

Some of the problem is the Kemper forum can be a really toxic place where criticism no matter how small is met with a lot of hostility. Same with the FB group. They are confining themselves to a bubble where they don't need to improve their unit because they have a legion of apologists defending it to the ground. It wasn't until Chris went to another form, gearpage I think where he was confronted and eventually admitted how little future plans they had, one being the editor. A Mark 2 unit with an interface and editor has so much potential but I doubt it would ever happen.

 

[broangiel]

Some of the problem is the Kemper forum can be a really toxic place where criticism no matter how small is met with a lot of hostility. Same with the FB group. They are confining themselves to a bubble where they don't need to improve their unit because they have a legion of apologists defending it to the ground. It wasn't until Chris went to another form, gearpage I think where he was confronted and eventually admitted how little future plans they had, one being the editor. A Mark 2 unit with an interface and editor has so much potential but I doubt it would ever happen.

A lot of TGP is head over heels for this. I was myself, until I saw how little it brought to the table.

Edit: to be clear, I do agree with everything you’re saying.

 

[SenorDingDong]

Some of the problem is the Kemper forum can be a really toxic place where criticism no matter how small is met with a lot of hostility. Same with the FB group. They are confining themselves to a bubble where they don't need to improve their unit because they have a legion of apologists defending it to the ground. It wasn't until Chris went to another form, gearpage I think where he was confronted and eventually admitted how little future plans they had, one being the editor. A Mark 2 unit with an interface and editor has so much potential but I doubt it would ever happen.

Presonus and Kemper are the two biggest bubble-dome companies I've experienced. Both have their little 'happy world' where everything they do is good enough, and if you criticize it, they have legions of apologists who try to strangle you into submission.

Two companies I don't see being around by 2025 if they don't make huge adjustments to their little bubbles.

 

[Smoked Porter]

Welp at $1600 my interest is lost, but I kinda had a feeling it wouldn't be competitive with the Fractal floor units. I'll echo that the Kemper forum is the worst, I had to stop looking there unless I needed to find some specific info. It's just filled with stubborn dorks who can't comprehend why anybody would ask more of Kemper (like an editor, or a more affordable profile "loader"), and they have a weird thing for throwing in condescending wink emojis after telling dissenters how wrong they are, which is fucking infuriating.

That said, the thing sounds still sounds great, but next time I buy a modeler it's probably gonna be an FM3 or used Ax8, they're better values.

 

[Soya]

I think it's neat, I just wish it would've been powered.

 

[DudeManBrother]

Given that the head/remote is $2300: the price isn’t awful for combing the two items into one. It does seem like they are looking back at what other companies are offering, instead of looking forward to future development of their own product; but they have an editor in the works (also looking back) and are updating all of their modeling effects.

The only way a Kemper 2 would be released is if they completely redo the way that profiling is captured. This would be cool, but the current algorithm is really good after some trial and error for capturing an amp setup. It’d be nice if it could be more consistent, or if there were better tutorials about exactly how to set up levels for consistent captures.

I’ve had my Kemper for about 5 years now. It was then advertised as a studio tool. It found its secondary purpose as a live tool, and live use now seems to be the primary use. The floor unit isn’t of interest for me; but I can see the appeal to someone, who doesn’t currently have a Kemper, looking to gig with “their amp” without having to drag it on stage and deal with sound guys asking to turn it down constantly.

 

[lewis]

price is good. About the same as my AX8 was which makes sense.
I mean despite being "outdated" tech apparently, literally most touring bands are using Kempers so similar to EMG, they probably dont feel like they are playing catch up to anyone (EMG endorse the worlds literal largest band)

For touring musicians they appear to be the market leader so whos playing catch up with who?
Be interested to study their financial figures comparing it to Fractal and anyone else in this bracket.

I mean everyone is always going to have some gripes with literally everything that exists and they own. Nothing is perfect. Seems a little bitter to be going in this hard on Kemper and their products given what ive mentioned /\ (I own a Kemper and an AX8 so im not biased as I love both companies)
Comes across a little bitter tbh.
We would all trade our situations to have a company doing as well as these guys so

 

[Lorcan Ward]

When people say outdated its that there were features requested back in the early 2010s and some even before it was made public. Their response was that the hardware can't support those features, upon release they had nearly maxed out the units processing power. They were able to revise the profiling a little bit more but they still reached a limit and have been stuck there since, a few compromises even had to be made to allow the changes. You will hear from a lot of experienced studio guys say that it gets 90-95% there and are able to point out across the EQ spectrum where the profiling can be improved but the unit doesn't have the processing power to allow that last bit of refinement.

Impulse Responses also are heavily shortened. There was a good thread on here where someone explained what was happening on the Kemper. Its also one of the other things that guys say is really missing from a perfect tone-match. Again thats a hardware limitation. They didn't future proof the unit the way Cliff does with the Axe-Fx models.

Yes its an incredible product that was and is still a complete game changer but if a mark 2 version with all the requests implemented was released then you wouldn't need anything again. it would be the perfect unit for hobbyists to pro studios.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

I understand folks want "more" from the unit, and it's not perfect, but the fact that its held up so well is testament to just how great it actually is, small issues that "power users" have aside.

It came out right after the AxeUltra. The Helix didn't even exist, and plug-ins were just getting popular.

It's just become so pedestrian. Which is probably a blessing and a curse. It's so ubiquitous, but also not special to us gear nuts anymore.

I fall in and out of love with mine all the time, but I can't bring myself to sell it, as when I need the handful of things it does really well, my Axe2 just doesn't cut it.

 

[narad]

they probably dont feel like they are playing catch up to anyone (EMG endorse the worlds literal largest band)

AKB48?

 

[lewis]

AKB48?

 

[lewis]

When people say outdated its that there were features requested back in the early 2010s and some even before it was made public. Their response was that the hardware can't support those features, upon release they had nearly maxed out the units processing power. They were able to revise the profiling a little bit more but they still reached a limit and have been stuck there since, a few compromises even had to be made to allow the changes. You will hear from a lot of experienced studio guys say that it gets 90-95% there and are able to point out across the EQ spectrum where the profiling can be improved but the unit doesn't have the processing power to allow that last bit of refinement.

Impulse Responses also are heavily shortened. There was a good thread on here where someone explained what was happening on the Kemper. Its also one of the other things that guys say is really missing from a perfect tone-match. Again thats a hardware limitation. They didn't future proof the unit the way Cliff does with the Axe-Fx models.

Yes its an incredible product that was and is still a complete game changer but if a mark 2 version with all the requests implemented was released then you wouldn't need anything again. it would be the perfect unit for hobbyists to pro studios.

Exactly! Kemper mk1 already gets "90-95%" of the way to perfectly cloning any amp. So a mk2 just for that extra 5% would be terrible business given MK1s are still selling great and everyone is using them and 2, the money it would take to plough into designing then building a new kemper that had twice the DSP power just to improve upon the tone from the Mk1, by 5%, is a waste of time.

Like I eluded to earlier, they for this reason, likely dont view themselves as playing catch up

EDIT:
Things that are NOT a waste of time is new form factors to cover every scenario like this new product does, and an editor which does make loads of sense

 

[WhiteLightOfDeath]

As a Kemper owner who sold my Green Lunchbox for an Axe Fx 3 (which is ofc the greatest amp on earth and I’m not here to get into that), I think the tones that the Kemper makes are bar none 100% as good as it gets. I mean, I really like the kemper a lot, and I bought it because the tones sounded exactly like the Mesa rigs I was profiling. With that said, I had to sell mine and when it was time to buy it again, I was SHOCKED the price was the same. That was only a little over a month ago or something. So by default, I went checked up on fractal and they DROPPED from 2500 to 2250 shipped without tax, so I said to myself, time to let that little green box go for good.

I miss it honestly. For plugging into an FRFR atomic CLR and turning it to my dual rectifier, it was an incredible feeling, and I dont have my CLR anymore either to play with the axe, but at the same time its a great machine, as Max said, like a 7620 it stood the test of time without a doubt

Tones ARE as good, or like 99% as good, as the new axe, which says a lot! In the end it was the price that made difference, it was $1500-1750 I would have bought another kemper

 

[StewRacing]

I have an opportunity to buy the Kemper Stage tomorrow. I am on an online retailers 1st batch pre-order list. I was going to buy my first modeler / profiler anyway later this summer. My salesman who owned a Kemper in the past had recommended the toaster to me sometime ago. I have been working with him for a while now and I do trust his judgement. I wanted a floor unit and sold myself on the Helix after thinking the Axe-Fx was the end all. Information overload in today's world I suppose. I believe the Kemper Stage would cover all my basis just like the Helix would. I play electric and acoustic mainly at home. I would also use the unit in acoustic open mic situations with a few simple effects. I plan to exclusively use the unit as a direct to PA system. I'll also use external pedals with my board. I am chasing the best possible amp tone in a direct application.

How should one decide on making a final decision. Both units have there advantages. Kemper is about 4" more compact then Helix for open mics. 18.5" vs 22.05". Helix could be easier to use in some examples. Thoughts. Thank you

 

[MaxOfMetal]

I have an opportunity to buy the Kemper Stage tomorrow. I am on an online retailers 1st batch pre-order list. I was going to buy my first modeler / profiler anyway later this summer. My salesman who owned a Kemper in the past had recommended the toaster to me sometime ago. I have been working with him for a while now and I do trust his judgement. I wanted a floor unit and sold myself on the Helix after thinking the Axe-Fx was the end all. Information overload in today's world I suppose. I believe the Kemper Stage would cover all my basis just like the Helix would. I play electric and acoustic mainly at home. I would also use the unit in acoustic open mic situations with a few simple effects. I plan to exclusively use the unit as a direct to PA system. I'll also use external pedals with my board. I am chasing the best possible amp tone in a direct application.

How should one decide on making a final decision. Both units have there advantages. Kemper is about 4" more compact then Helix for open mics. 18.5" vs 22.05". Helix could be easier to use in some examples. Thoughts. Thank you

You can't really go wrong when choosing between the current digital flagships (AxeFx, Kemper, Helix). We're at the point where it really just comes down to specific use-case and format.

From what it sounds like, you'll be more than happy with the Kemper, not that the other two can't do it either.