Most overrated player

[Metal-Box]

I may think Alexi's playing is less than innovative lately, but I still just got the Halo of Blood disc. It's really good, but not like their older stuff.

 

[wespaul]

Being young doesn't really have anything to do with it. I wasn't even born before Jimi Hendrix died and I fully appreciate and love his work. The same goes for many bands that hit the height of their popularity before I was born, I love a lot of music from before my time. Pantera just doesn't do anything for me. There were a lot of other bands playing heavy music in the 90s. Slayer was a pretty badass band that released some heavy material in the 90s also.

I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt with not putting things in proper perspective. There were a lot of other bands playing heavy music in the 90s, but very few shared in the popularity that Pantera basked in, which was the whole point: Pantera enjoyed the height of their success during a time when heavy music wasn't "in", and Dimebag was the one driving those riffs. Belittling Dimebag and his accomplishments with pigeonholing the very people giving him those accolades as "meathead metalheads" is absurd, and your whole timeline was wrong on top of it.

It's funny that you mention Slayer making heavy music in the 90s, because toward the end of that decade, they completely changed their style on Diabolus in Musica, which was trying to do less of the thrash stuff and more of the heavy metal that grooved, which was what Pantera was doing.

 

[Don Vito]

I may think Alexi's playing is less than innovative lately, but I still just got the Halo of Blood disc. It's really good, but not like their older stuff.

I bought it too.

Technical wise, it's not as good as the old albums, but the mood and theme is there again.

We have a thread btw http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/general-music-discussion/212613-children-bodom-megathread-25.html

 

[Hyacinth]

I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt with not putting things in proper perspective. There were a lot of other bands playing heavy music in the 90s, but very few shared in the popularity that Pantera basked in, which was the whole point: Pantera enjoyed the height of their success during a time when heavy music wasn't "in", and Dimebag was the one driving those riffs. Belittling Dimebag and his accomplishments with pigeonholing the very people giving him those accolades as "meathead metalheads" is absurd, and your whole timeline was wrong on top of it.

It's funny that you mention Slayer making heavy music in the 90s, because toward the end of that decade, they completely changed their style on Diabolus in Musica, which was trying to do less of the thrash stuff and more of the heavy metal that grooved, which was what Pantera was doing.

How was my timeline wrong? I'm not belittling Dimebag in the least, I'm not saying he's a bad player/writer/musician at all. He wrote some cool riffs and solos, but he is overrated IMO. This thread is about opinions. Music in general is all about your opinion of what you like and what you don't, I'm not saying definitively that Dimebag didn't have any hand in popularizing heavy metal, I'm saying he wasn't solely responsible for it and it kinda seems like you're implying that he was. While Pantera was still a glam metal band Slayer released Reign In Blood and South of Heaven, two albums which sound much heavier to me than Pantera's Power Metal which was released the same year as South of Heaven and two years after Reign In Blood. I listened to Cowboys From Hell and Seasons In The Abyss alternating track for track and Slayer just sounded more interesting to me. CFH wasn't bad in any sense of the word, just not my thing. It's just my opinion, no need to get all bent out of shape over it.

 

[isispelican]

Batio, Slash, Satriani

 

[wespaul]

How was my timeline wrong? I'm not belittling Dimebag in the least, I'm not saying he's a bad player/writer/musician at all. He wrote some cool riffs and solos, but he is overrated IMO. This thread is about opinions. Music in general is all about your opinion of what you like and what you don't, I'm not saying definitively that Dimebag didn't have any hand in popularizing heavy metal, I'm saying he wasn't solely responsible for it and it kinda seems like you're implying that he was. While Pantera was still a glam metal band Slayer released Reign In Blood and South of Heaven, two albums which sound much heavier to me than Pantera's Power Metal which was released the same year as South of Heaven and two years after Reign In Blood. I listened to Cowboys From Hell and Seasons In The Abyss alternating track for track and Slayer just sounded more interesting to me. CFH wasn't bad in any sense of the word, just not my thing. It's just my opinion, no need to get all bent out of shape over it.

Your timeline is wrong because you said the last time Pantera played together was 2003, when that was when they broke up, and not their last actual show. And saying the main reason he gets so much recognition is because he died young absolutely belittles him, as well as calling people who do give him recognition "meathead metalheads." Those are your words.

It's fine to have an opinion, but you're basing it off of something that isn't true. Dimebag was insanely popular in the 90s. He was right up there with Kirk Hammett in guitar polls, and on the cover of way too many guitar magazines to count. That's why I figured you were young, because if you were conscious of what was going on during that decade, you definitely wouldn't write something like "he's gets so much recognition because he died young."

And we are arguing two different things. I'm not arguing over which is heavier between Pantera and Slayer, or what albums. I'm arguing that Pantera was pushing the boundaries in heavy music at a time when it wasn't even popular to play metal. That's a pretty incredible accomplishment.

And I'm not bent out of shape. In fact, I love heavy metal and the history behind it and the bands that create the music. I can talk about this all day, so don't take it as an attack on you, or your opinion. I don't expect you to gush over Dimebag or Pantera, and you can think he is overrated, which I won't argue. I will, however, argue that his death doesn't really play a part in the recognition he does get, and what they did in the 90s was an incredible accomplishment.

Hugs.

 

[Hyacinth]

Your timeline is wrong because you said the last time Pantera played together was 2003, when that was when they broke up, and not their last actual show. And saying the main reason he gets so much recognition is because he died young absolutely belittles him, as well as calling people who do give him recognition "meathead metalheads." Those are your words.

It's fine to have an opinion, but you're basing it off of something that isn't true. Dimebag was insanely popular in the 90s. He was right up there with Kirk Hammett in guitar polls, and on the cover of way too many guitar magazines to count. That's why I figured you were young, because if you were conscious of what was going on during that decade, you definitely wouldn't write something like "he's gets so much recognition because he died young."

And we are arguing two different things. I'm not arguing over which is heavier between Pantera and Slayer, or what albums. I'm arguing that Pantera was pushing the boundaries in heavy music at a time when it wasn't even popular to play metal. That's a pretty incredible accomplishment.

And I'm not bent out of shape. In fact, I love heavy metal and the history behind it and the bands that create the music. I can talk about this all day, so don't take it as an attack on you, or your opinion. I don't expect you to gush over Dimebag or Pantera, and you can think he is overrated, which I won't argue. I will, however, argue that his death doesn't really play a part in the recognition he does get, and what they did in the 90s was an incredible accomplishment.

Hugs.

I didn't say that 2003 was the last time they played, I said that's when they broke up. Kurt Cobain was super popular too, but became a legend after he died. Dimebag was popular as hell as well, but became a legend after he died. Same with Hendrix, and Morrison and SRV. I'm not saying they don't deserve to be regarded as legends, you're just assuming I meant that was the ONLY reason they're popular and hyped as much as they are. This doesn't mean they weren't great at what they did, but them dying young absolutely plays a part in how popular they were following their deaths. I'm not so much arguing Slayer is heavier as I am arguing that Slayer was doing more to push boundaries earlier than Pantera was imo. This is a pointless argument because our minds won't change, and I don't like arguing with people on SSO because I feel like we're all family here. So I'm sorry if I offended you with anything I said bro! <3

 

[monkeysuncle]

Wayne Campbell

 

[Datura]

I once picked up a guitar magazine that had the guy from muse on the cover hailing him as the new Hendrix, so I'll have to throw him in the mix too.

 

[Metal-Box]

I once picked up a guitar magazine that had the guy from muse on the cover hailing him as the new Hendrix, so I'll have to throw him in the mix too.

Hahahaha!

 

[wespaul]

I didn't say that 2003 was the last time they played, I said that's when they broke up.

You said they broke up in 2003, but at the tail end of your statement you infer that the last time they played was when they broke up:

Also Pantera broke up in 2003, Damageplan was formed in 2004 and Dimebag was killed in 2004, definitely not 3 years after they stopped playing.

It's not even that big of a deal, though. I would argue that Kurt Cobain died while Nirvana was red-hot, which cemented his legacy before we could get a broader picture of his career. Cobain was 27 when he died, and Dime was nearing 40, too. Dime and Vinnie sat around for a few years after they last played with Pantera, did nothing, and then formed Damageplan, which had a luke-warm reception. I feel we have more of a complete picture with Dime and his career, which I feel deserves more than a write-off of "he gets recognition because he died early."

I'm not so much arguing Slayer is heavier as I am arguing that Slayer was doing more to push boundaries earlier than Pantera was imo.

This is where I get lost. Nobody is denying that Slayer set a gold standard with thrash metal in the 80s. Nobody is denying that Pantera was a struggling glam metal band in the 80s, either. We're talking about Dimebag being overrated and his death having a role in elevating his accomplishments. I'd argue that Pantera's accomplishments in the 90s is more impressive, considering grunge and alternative music all but killed the genre dead. Slayer's rise took place during an era when metal was actually popular and on the radio. In the late 90s, Slayer was struggling to find their sound, and I'd even argue that they never truly recovered since then. It's kind of like a mirror image of each band's career highs and lows.

But please don't apologize and think you've offended me. Like I said, I love this sort of stuff. I can talk Metallica, Pantera, Megadeth, Testament, Slayer, Iron Maiden, Soilwork, Anthrax, (the list goes on and on) all day. I'm kinda bummed the discussion will end, but that's okay. The music lives on.

 

[Shaft]

How this thread did not turn into a flame war is beyond me.

You guys are awesome.

 

[Metal-Box]

I bought it too.

Technical wise, it's not as good as the old albums, but the mood and theme is there again.

We have a thread btw http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/general-music-discussion/212613-children-bodom-megathread-25.html

I read though that entire thread. LOL. Like I said, I am not the biggest Alexi fan, but I love COB. His sig model is definitely on my GAS list.

 

[Metal-Box]

How this thread did not turn into a flame war is beyond me.

You guys are awesome.

I never intended to start a flame war and I am glad it didn't become one so far. I was just curious how people viewed popular guitar players out there. With such a wide demographic, I am not surprised at how the opinions are playing out. I think, for the most part, perspective and context plays a big part in the "overrated" opinion.

 

[will_shred]

Chuck from Death, people claim both of them as legends but iv never heard anything from either of them that wowed me

I am trying very hard to not get to butthurt but really? come on.

The dude founded 2 genres of metal. He was a serious musical genius and what I consider to be a real ground breaker. Just listen to The Sound of Perseverance, then listen to any death/prog/melodic death metal past the year 2000. His influence is EVERYWHERE. For that reason I really don't think he can be over rated. I suppose anyone can make 2 subgenres but how many people can say they invented something as big as Death metal and progressive death metal? Not many.



Also for overrated guitar players? I find it kind of hard to come up with guitar players that I feel are genuinely over rated.

EVH for sure, haven't heard anything from him that really wowed me. At least not enough to say "That guy needs to have an entire portion of the guitar market dedicated to him". I suppose you could say the same for dime however I think dime would be rolling over in his grave seeing how dean has whored his name out for money.

Zakk Wylde, Early stuff was pretty cool however I hardly think his playing lives up to his position in the music industry. I can't stand to listen to his solos now days, the music is drowned out in a mix of alcohol and wah.


a lot of the kind of obscure shred guys, Rusty Cooley, MAB and so on. Yeah they might be able to play 32,000 notes per second but I've never heard any particularly impressive music from them.

OH and of course those dudes from dragon force, they're just awful if anyones actually seen them live. Awful.

 

[BeyondAntares]

who do you think is getting way more attention than they deserve? For me, it would definitely be Alexi Laiho. He is not a bad guitarist at all, but he is not tops. He has the big name endorsement, signature model, magazine covers, large tours, etc. But he doesn nothing that blows me away. Again, he is a really good guitarist, but not as good as his status would indicate.

Its a good idea for a thread. In Alexi's defence, he went through the same thing as Dimabag and sepultura. When they went from leather pants to camo they dropped the shred and donned easy groove based riffs. It was them keeping up with the times.

To truly appreciate alexi's song writting - check out the albums Something wild, hatebreeder & follow the reaper.

To me he was trying to revamp neoclassical for a more accessible audience with a nod to both malmsteen and iron maiden. It wasn't supposed to be complex - just great sounding. I wouldn't call him the next Randy Rhoades, as George Lynch once said, but more of a tribute player like comparing zakk wylde to the great Randy.

those sloppy drunks from dragonforce

x2 - hate how dry and uninspiring their leads are

not trying to start a shitstorm; but at the risk of getting neg-repped to the depths of hell, i'd have to say Dimebag.

Chris Broderick. His stuff with 'Deth are just bleh...

This x1000 wtf is wrong with megadeth? I was expecting them to sound like Jag Panzer/nevermore and old school rust in peace era megadeth. They took their sound from Risk, imo the worst sound they had in their careers and kept it. Chris Broderick is a phenomenal player but he has to speak up more to get more of his style into the riff writing process with Dave Mustaine.

Misha Mansoor.

Great riffs, just needs a bit of refining. I was expecting more input from Nolly for the new album but was dissapointed. It sounded too haphazard.

Vai. I can respect his technical prowess and chops, but I personally have never heard anything from him that I can personally connect with as a piece, song, or otherwise. He may as well be a super-fast, well-programmed synth to me - well organised, extensively proficient, but just lacking in anything I can find truly worthy of the levels of praise he receives.

Vai is an acquired taste that takes years to develop. I heard of vai when I was in grade 8 in high school, couldn't stand his music and never touched it until I overheard real illusions. Two songs really stood out - building the church and K'm pee du wee. After that I actually took up guitar lessons to be able to play with that kind of control.

Even after years of listening to vai - I don't dig all his music. Some songs stand out more than others depending on the style you lean towards. What he does do well is variety of different styles and no two songs sound alike. Each song has a story and over the most basic riffs he can make it soar.

Check out the following videos to gain an appreciation - not many guitarists can pull of that level of feel behind their notes.

 

[BIG ND SWEATY]

I am trying very hard to not get to butthurt but really? come on.

The dude founded 2 genres of metal. He was a serious musical genius and what I consider to be a real ground breaker. Just listen to The Sound of Perseverance, then listen to any death/prog/melodic death metal past the year 2000. His influence is EVERYWHERE. For that reason I really don't think he can be over rated. I suppose anyone can make 2 subgenres but how many people can say they invented something as big as Death metal and progressive death metal? Not many.

im aware of his influence and playing ability but im just not impressed by it. just a difference of opinion

 

[Metal-Box]

Vai is an acquired taste that takes years to develop. I heard of vai when I was in grade 8 in high school, couldn't stand his music and never touched it until I overheard real illusions. Two songs really stood out - building the church and K'm pee du wee. After that I actually took up guitar lessons to be able to play with that kind of control.

Even after years of listening to vai - I don't dig all his music. Some songs stand out more than others depending on the style you lean towards. What he does do well is variety of different styles and no two songs sound alike. Each song has a story and over the most basic riffs he can make it soar.

+1

 

[Datura]

Steve vais 'feel' feels cheesy, forced and over the top to me.

 

[will_shred]

Check out the following videos to gain an appreciation - not many guitarists can pull of that level of feel behind their notes.

I really started to appreciate Vai after kind of understanding where he came from, I mean he started out playing guitar with Frank Zappa. If you think of him as being very influenced by Zappa and kind of then diving into the metal world, it all starts to make sense.