scrub
Well-Known Member
Ha. i agree completely. i even vented about him on Twitter and got myself blocked. totally worth it.
New Dream Theater song - The Gift of Music
- Thread starter HeHasTheJazzHands
- Start date
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InFlames235
Well-Known Member
Agreed - his drumming sounded more natural and the drum mix was far better with him behind the kit. How they went with Mangini over Marco Minneman, I'll never understand....
Bucks
Well-Known Member
He is also responsible for some of the best lyrics...
change of seasons, mirror, glass prison etc.
HeHasTheJazzHands
Well-Known Member
I like Mangini a lot. I don't get the hate. 
Also, Portnoy ruined me with his backgroud/lead vocals alone. Plus, I wasn't a fan of Nu Theater. At all. I was a big fan of DT13 because they tried to strip that alt/nu metal sound they had.
Also, Portnoy ruined me with his backgroud/lead vocals alone. Plus, I wasn't a fan of Nu Theater. At all. I was a big fan of DT13 because they tried to strip that alt/nu metal sound they had.
jvms
Well-Known Member
I like Mangini a lot. I don't get the hate.
Also, Portnoy ruined me with his backgroud/lead vocals alone. Plus, I wasn't a fan of Nu Theater. At all. I was a big fan of DT13 because they tried to strip that alt/nu metal sound they had.
Wait, they had that alternative thing between SDOIT and Octavarium. That crap ended way before DT 13.
Portnoy was amazing as a producer, mainly by making his kit sound fat and to refrain Petrucci from making his guitar sound like ...., drowning it with chorus. Sounds like nowadays, he is trying to pull of an Alex Lifeson and it`s not working at all. Dude used to have the best rythm tone in metal and since `A Dramatic`, it sounds like total mush.
A-Branger
Well-Known Member
yup agree that he was a great producer and Petrucci guitars nowdays are way too saturaded with effects, and from the last album or two I can say the same from the vocals. Hope this new album they remove that, at least in this song they did.
I didnt care about Portnoy singing. I do not care about the lyrics, I never had. One of the perks to be born in a spanish speaking culture I guess. I got used to hear the vocals as a melody and a instrument, rather to pay attention to what they sing and the lyrics are about. Im the biggest fan of DT, I even had a cover band of them, but I only know like 10% of what their lyrics are about lol
What I do not like about Mangini is the over the top show he always do. I know Portnoy had a big drum kit, and his latest twin monster although it was "big", it was more like a medium kit next to a small one, he changed according to the song (like changing guitars). But Mangini takes the whole "DT = BIG drumkits" to the next level, till the point it actually bothers me a lot, same the way he plays live, hes way way too "look at me look at me look at me" kinda player, and that bothers me even more.... Im like "dude, relax, chill out"
and always liked Portnoy drum sounds better. Just hear the Winery Dogs Oblivion song, the one thats in youtube as a music video. Not even reach a 1:00minute mark and you already are like "mmmm... sounds like DT" (if you ignore the amount of chorus on the bass)
I didnt care about Portnoy singing. I do not care about the lyrics, I never had. One of the perks to be born in a spanish speaking culture I guess. I got used to hear the vocals as a melody and a instrument, rather to pay attention to what they sing and the lyrics are about. Im the biggest fan of DT, I even had a cover band of them, but I only know like 10% of what their lyrics are about lol
What I do not like about Mangini is the over the top show he always do. I know Portnoy had a big drum kit, and his latest twin monster although it was "big", it was more like a medium kit next to a small one, he changed according to the song (like changing guitars). But Mangini takes the whole "DT = BIG drumkits" to the next level, till the point it actually bothers me a lot, same the way he plays live, hes way way too "look at me look at me look at me" kinda player, and that bothers me even more.... Im like "dude, relax, chill out"
and always liked Portnoy drum sounds better. Just hear the Winery Dogs Oblivion song, the one thats in youtube as a music video. Not even reach a 1:00minute mark and you already are like "mmmm... sounds like DT" (if you ignore the amount of chorus on the bass)
vividox
Well-Known Member
That's fair.
To me it feels like they've always sounded good live, at least the pre-self titled shows, but that the sound on their albums is really inconsistent from album to album. Octavarium and Black Cloud & Silver Linings are probably my favorite albums when it comes to the production, the drums are actually properly mixed and the guitar tone isn't weird and shrill like on Systematic Chaos.
JohnIce
Singlecoil Enthusiast
I think it's unfair to blame Portnoy's angsty lyrics and vocals too much, to me it sounds more like the rest of the band just weren't on that train anymore and that's why it just became a lukewarm compromise. I'm pretty sure DT got most of their fanbase back in the days when they did dare to be a little emotional and put some uncomfortable themes into their music. Even something as recent as ToT is a lot of people's favorite. DT without Portnoy sounds more cohesive again, but also punishingly boring to me.
The Winery Dogs on the other hand, surprisingly pushes all the right buttons for me. When players are THAT good, that kind of raw live vibe with some uneven footwork, small mistakes, pushing and pulling against the grid etc. is what I want to hear. Being a top-class player is kind of wasted if you're gonna sound like another DAW-edited studio rat anyhow, which sadly is what this new DT song sounds like to me.
I mean, just listen to this! YUM! That's how pros sound! That stumble at 0:32 gives me wood.
The Winery Dogs on the other hand, surprisingly pushes all the right buttons for me. When players are THAT good, that kind of raw live vibe with some uneven footwork, small mistakes, pushing and pulling against the grid etc. is what I want to hear. Being a top-class player is kind of wasted if you're gonna sound like another DAW-edited studio rat anyhow, which sadly is what this new DT song sounds like to me.
I mean, just listen to this! YUM! That's how pros sound! That stumble at 0:32 gives me wood.
A-Branger
Well-Known Member
yup, thats the song I was talking about. The drums sounds more like DT than any of the new ones. IF they had this ind of production on the drums for the new album, THAT would be awesome... but it wont
InHiding
Well-Known Member
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vividox
Well-Known Member
I... wha... did you really just insult Billy Sheehan?
I'd go along with that. I don't think the band was going to do anything especially great again either way though. I have no expectations for their new record. They write too fast and don't edit themselves well, for all their talent.
Esp Griffyn
Play more music
That was dull, that autotune flub was pure comedy too, is this what DT are up to these days? 
wankerness
Well-Known Member
Billy Sheehan is like the bass equivalent of John Petrucci, he uses the tone that cuts through the mix the most to make sure no one ever misses a single note he plays. It's pretty annoying. He's a very talented player, obviously, but everything I've ever heard him play on seemed like he'd paid off the producer to make sure he was the loudest instrument. That famous old video of him doing a "duel" with Paul Gilbert is one of the most repetitive and boring bass wank vids I've ever seen, too. It's insane how easily he can play that fast, but I can't really think of anything I heard of his that I LIKED. That video posted above has his tone in full effect. The song's not bad, but...yeah. I can certainly understand being annoyed by the tone. It's like "hmm, I am too much of a bass player, people that don't listen for bass might not be able to hear me, TURN THE TREBLE WAY UP FOR MAXIMUM BOINK NOISE!!! Oh wait, now I'm getting covered up by the guitar player cause I'm interfering with his frequency range? Well, TURN MY VOLUME UP SO I'M WAY LOUDER!"
JohnIce
Singlecoil Enthusiast
In his defense, he's had his style and tone fairly intact since the 70's. It's totally legitimate to dislike what he does, but to me it's an impressive feat on its own to be THAT recognizable, not to mention on the one rock instrument that features the fewest recognizable players. And well, actually get hired by bands and make a career out of it.
In a trio format I appreciate a bass tone with personality, in the Winery Dogs' case I think the fact that each member kept exactly the same styles they'd been known for from other projects is really cool. If they all changed and started experimenting it would sound like a lame side project, but because they each continue with their respective signature styles from past projects, it sounds like a proper band.
wankerness
Well-Known Member
All great points. That song wasn't bad, I just thought his tone was annoying as usual. I might have to give the album a listen sometime.
patdavidmusic
Well-Known Member
i'm liking this track more and more with each listen
protest
Well-Known Member
Dream Theater would have been better of with pre 2000's Portnoy than they currently are with Mangini, but that Portnoy didn't exist at the time everything was going down.
