New Mesa Boogie Mark amp?

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Shorts_Mike

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I actually quite like it. I watched the Tonewars MkVII demo and I see how I can dial it in to work for me. Sounds like it can do some Cannibal Corpse tone with some eq.

Raw, the VII mode actually reminds me of the first high gain mode in the MI Megalith Beta without the tight switches engaged.
Considering all of the other Mark VII demos, the Tonewars one isn't actually that bad. He seems to quite like it and much prefers it to the Mark V, but you lose me when you have gain and treble maxed out on Channel 3 AND THEN add a boost. Just not my thing.
 
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narad

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Considering all of the other Mark VII demos, the Tonewars one isn't actually that bad. He seems to quite like it and much prefers it to the Mark V, but you lose me when you have gain and treble maxed out on Channel 3 AND THEN add a boost. Just not my thing.


Finally some good sounds. Probably the best I heard IIC tones, and the IV mode sounds really good here. Not sure what you mean about the boost + gain/treb maxed -- he even went into it in the end about how it's not for everyone and you'd probably want to bring the treble down a bit. I prefer my IIC/III tones boosted with the amp gain backed off a little since it saturates in a different way.
 

Meeotch

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Not sure what you mean about the boost + gain/treb maxed -- he even went into it in the end about how it's not for everyone and you'd probably want to bring the treble down a bit.
It means he didn’t watch the demo...and I can't blame him lol. Basically all of Tone Wars demos are way over the top. To my surprise, he approached the VII differently and dialed in some tones with reasonable levels of saturation. I thought IIC+ and IV sounded decent...even good here. And FWIW I appreciated his glowing review of the amp's feel and tone compared to the Mark V 90w.

One mistaken assumption he makes at the end is that all modes are midi recallable. I checked the manual and indeed, you can only change channels and toggle things like EQ, reverb, and fx loop with midi. Not individual modes. WTF Mesa?
 

Kyle Jordan

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Finally some good sounds. Probably the best I heard IIC tones, and the IV mode sounds really good here. Not sure what you mean about the boost + gain/treb maxed -- he even went into it in the end about how it's not for everyone and you'd probably want to bring the treble down a bit. I prefer my IIC/III tones boosted with the amp gain backed off a little since it saturates in a different way.

I’m watching it right now after reading that he ran the amp without an OD for a bit and I agree. He’s getting really good Mark tones here. I’m going to watch this later with my headphones, but he’s nailing those really really sharp and sizzling highs.

Digging what he got from VII mode without the boost. Was actually pretty good boosted too once he started dialing it in. Loved when he ran the IIC+ mode with the treble cranked and gain at 3 o’clock. Really wished he played it more like that. I think the best tone he got was in IV mode when he dialed the gain back to near noon.

Me thinks putting a 5751 in a couple spots would probably get close to what I’d like to hear in terms of less grind and saturation for a clearer and sharper tone.

Gonna have to play this one now definitely.
 

prlgmnr

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I've read through the manual and I think Mesa really needs to cut the shit with the "mysterious" marketing talk and give us specifics about the circuit.

Like, specifically, in the Mark VII mode, where is the damn tonestack located? At the beginning like a standard Mark or at the end like in a Recto? None of this bullshit "oooOOOooo it's a spooky melding of Mark and Recto that"... no. Stop it. Just goddamn tell us. If it's at the end, tell us about the low end filtering at the input. Is there none of it, like in the Recto? A lot? Somewhere in the middle?
"As the two historic streams of Mesa Boogie's revolutionary amp design cross like angry mountain goats butting heads in a a snowstorm, listen in awe as the resultant sparks of tone leap from your fingertips and ignite yet another revolution in heavy music that will echo around the world forevermore"
 

Kyle Jordan

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I’m watching it right now after reading that he ran the amp without an OD for a bit and I agree. He’s getting really good Mark tones here. I’m going to watch this later with my headphones, but he’s nailing those really really sharp and sizzling highs.

Digging what he got from VII mode without the boost. Was actually pretty good boosted too once he started dialing it in. Loved when he ran the IIC+ mode with the treble cranked and gain at 3 o’clock. Really wished he played it more like that. I think the best tone he got was in IV mode when he dialed the gain back to near noon.

Me thinks putting a 5751 in a couple spots would probably get close to what I’d like to hear in terms of less grind and saturation for a clearer and sharper tone.

Gonna have to play this one now definitely.

Just watched with headphones on my Mac.

I stand by what I wrote about the IV mode above. Most everything else though, I take back to various extents. I'll stop cluttering the thread and just say that unless something changes or playing the amp is drastically different, I'll be skipping this like I did the V and it's variants.

I'm also now quite certain that Tone Wars is of little use to me. One of the few really good tones he got in the videos I've watched were with an amp he literally called "the worst he ever played."
 

Shorts_Mike

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It means he didn’t watch the demo...and I can't blame him lol. Basically all of Tone Wars demos are way over the top. To my surprise, he approached the VII differently and dialed in some tones with reasonable levels of saturation. I thought IIC+ and IV sounded decent...even good here. And FWIW I appreciated his glowing review of the amp's feel and tone compared to the Mark V 90w.

One mistaken assumption he makes at the end is that all modes are midi recallable. I checked the manual and indeed, you can only change channels and toggle things like EQ, reverb, and fx loop with midi. Not individual modes. WTF Mesa?
I watched the demo. I was the one who posted it. On both iic+ and iv modes on the Mark VII, like on his demo of the Mark V, he cranks and, then, maxes the gain (on this one he also cranks/maxes the treble as well). Thats the principle tone he ends up on and is pretty much what he does on almost every demo. Then, he adds a boost like he, also, does on every demo. Its not a tone that im personally fond of at all, but I understand that everyone is different. For me, I never set the gain on Channel 3 on my V past 1 o'clock and would never add anything more than a clean boost to it. Regardless, some of the in-between tones that he spent a limited amount of time on sounded pretty good, although nothing was truly mind-blowing or game changing.
 
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c7spheres

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If anyone wants to brighten their day check out that ToneWars ToneX review video's intro. lol

His Mark VII demo was good imo. If you pay close attention it tells a lot about the amps responsivness compared to other vids. There's a couple parts with gain backed off for a few seconds and also that treble control shows how it focuses things. To bad the midi don't control the modes. There's gotta be some aftermaket way to make it happen. After I win the lottery, just gonna have to buy 9 of them, then some more for the power modes too. A wall of these would kick ass!.
 

ExMachina

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How different are the preamp circuits between say the mark IV channel on the V vs the VII? How much could they really change?

Can someone explain the obsession with large transformers?
 

Shorts_Mike

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How different are the preamp circuits between say the mark IV channel on the V vs the VII? How much could they really change?

Can someone explain the obsession with large transformers?
The manual would seem to indicate that the Mark IV and Crunch preamp circuits were taken directly from the Mark V (Im sure that there were some minor tweaks along the way). I would, also, suspect that the Mark IIC+ preamp circuit was taken from the Mark V as well. According to Mesa, these were all faithful/exact recreations and would make sense to recycle in some form. However, changes in the transformer, other internal parts, the EQ functionality, etc will give the amp its own very slightly different tonal quality. Its not going to be a night/day difference, though. As an example, the JP2C got a transformer change at some point in the production process and people made a big deal about it. The resultant change in tone, however, was subtle at best.
 

c7spheres

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How different are the preamp circuits between say the mark IV channel on the V vs the VII? How much could they really change?

Can someone explain the obsession with large transformers?
(TLDR go to last sentence)

I don't know the differences in circuits but the big transformers thing is about more control and stability between the amp and speaker. They control the power surge for better stability. Really matters at high volumes/power. - High damping ability means it can clamp down the speaker to silence faster and better/harder, and that's good for chugs, then in the oppositre direction for more controlled sustain so notes don't die out and still sound fat with low noise when the note is dying out too. So they handle dynamics better under those conditions.

- With audio though it's all relative to purpose of use, so smaller well built transformers kick ass too (like in the 20/20 or 20 watt small amp) as long as within range (bedroom level/small room/no live drummer), but when you want the real thing (full scale) and run many speakers etc with live drummer levels, then these big tranformers shine. - Small amps like the 20/20 can for sure jam at these high levels, but they can't punch or handle/clamp things in the same way, because their not full scale amps (punching above their weight). They can sound thin or get lost in the mix without a PA. If a smaller rigs tone or feel is desired you just scale it up through the PA at that point or slave out to another amp. Big Iron means you don't need a PA or slave amps at the 1:1 scale (intended use conditions/jam spot). It's all you need, so no PA crap getting in the way in the jam spot or mix, no phase issues etc. Most high wattage heads are big iron but some think it's only the mega sized one's. Wattage doesn't matter as much, depending. Depends how many cabs etc.. Doesn't matter much with 50 and 100 watters. With those you can expand more cab's but you'll start losing some contro/clamping and oomph. Just add more slave heads if you want it back. Not sure If Boogie makes slave heads or not.

- The straight rig sounds best. It's the guitar only, then bass only, drummer only and vocals through pa. then blend in kick/snare to PA if needed and go. This is a great garage type setup. For hard rock and metal a 20/20 might not work but big iron will with room to spare. A 20 watt would be fine for most other styles however with no problem, but even then you might want big iron for it's mojo still. The notes do have a 'weight' behind them. You can really tell under jam conditions the dynamic response, feel, and weight of the notes.
 
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ExMachina

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I don't know the differences in circuits but I think the big transformers give more control and stability between the amp and speaker. They control the power surge for better stability. Really matters at high volumes. High damping ability means it can clamp down the speaker to silence faster and better/harder, and that's good for chugs, then in the oppositre direction for more controlled sustain so notes don't die out and still sounds fat with low noise when the note is dying out too.
Okay, so form what I know about transformers, the impedance reflected form the primary to secondary increases with the number of winds. So for a large transformers the multiplier is larger. My assumption is that the impedance matching at the tube is better for larger transformers thus the effect of the speaker load is actually minimized giving a tighter feeling. Larger transformers increases the primary inductance reducing the low cut off freq.
 

Jon Pearson

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How different are the preamp circuits between say the mark IV channel on the V vs the VII? How much could they really change?

Can someone explain the obsession with large transformers?

Big transformer is harder to saturate, reproduces the lows more accurately, keeps things nice and clear, no squish in the low end. Also, bigger is always better. Next you'll be asking someone to explain why KT88s are cool, come on now.
 

c7spheres

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Okay, so form what I know about transformers, the impedance reflected form the primary to secondary increases with the number of winds. So for a large transformers the multiplier is larger. My assumption is that the impedance matching at the tube is better for larger transformers thus the effect of the speaker load is actually minimized giving a tighter feeling. Larger transformers increases the primary inductance reducing the low cut off freq.
I accidenatlly posted that while I was wirting it before it was done. Edit to post 774 has been made. Sorry for confusion. Please read again. I'm not smart enough for what you're talking about though, haha. Electronics scramble my brain for the most part. What you're saying makes sense to me though. They provide better isolation too.
 
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GreatGreen

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Big transformer is harder to saturate, reproduces the lows more accurately, keeps things nice and clear, no squish in the low end. Also, bigger is always better. Next you'll be asking someone to explain why KT88s are cool, come on now.

This is exactly it. A larger transformer is basically synonymous with the effects of a more powerful power section. Stiffer, harder to saturate and overdrive. More accurate lows and ability to accurately reproduce a wider frequency spectrum overall, less squish an non-linearity at moments of high energy requirement, like the transients that happen when you hit notes hard, etc.
 

Jon Pearson

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Dudes, I just got another few minutes to play, this time through the line out into my interface. I'm really pleased with these sounds I'm getting. I'm not sure what exactly makes the difference, but all the high gain sounds are more aggressive than what I'm used to from Marks, and I'm really digging it. I captured some sloppy clips, I'll post them when I get a chance to chop them up by mode.
 
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