Non political figure found guilty of crimes

[nightsprinter]

It happens. I don't know what constitutes notable though.

'Ghost guns' showing up in school shootings, experts fear trend will get worse

Four recent shootings involved a gun made from an online kit, police said.

abcnews.go.com

https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/21/us/saugus-shooting-ghost-gun/index.html

Use of 3D printed guns in German synagogue shooting must act as warning to security services, experts say

‘All you need is a weekend worth of time and $50 for the materials’, Balliet wrote in obscure online post about manufacturing weapons

www.independent.co.uk

 

[MaxOfMetal]

Haven't most of the big gun violence events that spark conversations like this been started with someone accessing an otherwise legal gun? It's always either "he took his dads gun" or "he was a perfectly responsible legal gun owner right up until the shooting".

I can't remember any instances of big notable shooting events where they were 3D printed.

Yeah, 3D printing guns is like the flying car of whacky gun-nutiness. It's always just around the corner and is either the reason to highly restrict or highly unrestrict access depending on what side you're on.

But "80%" kits, which are the "no no bits" of a firearm (the part you need to buy from a licensed dealer*) built to almost completion and come with instructions and jigs that allow you to finish that last 20% with basic hand tools, have been around for years.

Though, legal* stuff is so easy to get that there's little incentive to deal with kits and making your own stuff. It's like no one new to guitar is building a kit, it's just for the nerds like us.

 

[Crungy]

Haven't most of the big gun violence events that spark conversations like this been started with someone accessing an otherwise legal gun? It's always either "he took his dads gun" or "he was a perfectly responsible legal gun owner right up until the shooting".

I can't remember any instances of big notable shooting events where they were 3D printed.

I don't have any statistics in front of me but it has to make up a noteworthy percentage. I don't know if it came out about this assassination attempt but I have a feeling that's what happened. I could be wrong though.

I'm sure the percentage of 3d printed gun incidences will only go up, but in the grand scheme it may be a small slice of the pie compared to what Max just mentioned with kits/partd for the more experienced crowd.

 

[nightsprinter]

I don't have any statistics in front of me but it has to make up a noteworthy percentage. I don't know if it came out about this assassination attempt but I have a feeling that's what happened. I could be wrong though.

I'm sure the percentage of 3d printed gun incidences will only go up, but in the grand scheme it may be a small slice of the pie compared to what Max just mentioned with kits/partd for the more experienced crowd.

I read that dad bought a rifle and kid got it. Whether that's because dad was bad dad and bought it for his kid or allowed his kid to use it, or if he didn't lock it up lawfully and hold on to the key where unauthorized users couldn't access it remains to be seen.

Dad's got some splaining to do and my guess is it isn't going to work out too good for him.

 

[TedEH]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying 3d printed or parts guns don't exist, but we did have to find an article from 5 years ago talking about a non-US location in order to demonstrate they're being used. IMO they aren't THE concern. I'm unconvinced from these articles that if suddenly the US became a shining example of gun control, or those Crazy Libs took all your God Fearing Guns away, that you'd suddenly be overrun with 3d printed guns instead.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - a lot of gun violence comes down to opportunity. Having a "responsible legal" gun 20 feet away at all times is a lot of opportunity. Having to jump through hoops to source parts and do your own assembly just to end up with something that might only work once and is a risk of blowing up in your own face is a much bigger time sync and logistical and emotional investment. I maintain that reducing crimes of opportunity would be HUGE for the US's gun problem.

 

[Crungy]

@TedEH 100% agree that kit guns and 3d printed ones are the main issue. Small part of the pie that may grow but probably not to a notable amount.

@nightsprinter thats what I was thinking once I heard his age. I think that's more likely than him sourcing it illegally, but who knows, maybe he was a total hoodlum.

 

[nightsprinter]

I've had a concealed carry permit for almost 15 years and I've never actually carried in public unless I'm hiking in the woods or camping. *shrugs* I don't really care enough about guns to passionately argue for or against them despite having said permit. It someone cAmE 4 mUh gUnS I think I'd be okay. I guess it would give me an excuse to get some sweet ninja stars or nunchaku though.

 

[StevenC]

How would the tweaker in question lawfully purchase a gun? In my state, the tweaker would have to go to sign up for a special class (In my case- multi day) and then petition the local police chief with federal and local forms as to why they want to lawfully own or carry a weapon, meet with the police in person and answer questions, pass a full background check, then wait to see if you get approved.

There are plenty of checks and balances in MA in my opinion. It's not a simple task here.

MA's statistics seem to show that this is very effective gun control. 2023 had 7 mass shootings for 7 million people, meanwhile Texas had 65 mass shootings for 30 million people.

 

[nightsprinter]

I decided to look up the criteria for mass shooting as defined by the site that said MA had 7. Their definition is "The organization defines mass shootings as an instance of at least four victims killed or injured by gunfire, not including the shooter."

Makes the #7 make a lot more sense to me. In my mind, I hear "mass shooting" and think of a school, concert hall, etc.

I'd be curious to know how many of those 7 were gang-related or domestic-related with bystanders being injured. But I can't find any data currently. There seem to often be people getting shot in places like Springfield and Holyoke which are high crime urban areas.

I don't have anything to add other than it's interesting looking into statistics because I feel like I don't have a great understanding of modern day crime.

 

[narad]

Well I mean, plastic guns have been used in presidential assassination attempts going back to 1993. Fortunately Clint Eastwood was able to stop it, but we can't always count on him being around.

 

[StevenC]

I decided to look up the criteria for mass shooting as defined by the site that said MA had 7. Their definition is "The organization defines mass shootings as an instance of at least four victims killed or injured by gunfire, not including the shooter."

Makes the #7 make a lot more sense to me. In my mind, I hear "mass shooting" and think of a school, concert hall, etc.

I'd be curious to know how many of those 7 were gang-related or domestic-related with bystanders being injured. But I can't find any data currently. There seem to often be people getting shot in places like Springfield and Holyoke which are high crime urban areas.

I don't have anything to add other than it's interesting looking into statistics because I feel like I don't have a great understanding of modern day crime.

That doesn't really change anything though. It's still far less in MA than places with similar population but fewer controls. And wait until you hear about how much gun crime there is in places like London or Tokyo or Paris.

 

[BlackMastodon]

How would the tweaker in question lawfully purchase a gun? In my state, the tweaker would have to go to sign up for a special class (In my case- multi day) and then petition the local police chief with federal and local forms as to why they want to lawfully own or carry a weapon, meet with the police in person and answer questions, pass a full background check, then wait to see if you get approved.

There are plenty of checks and balances in MA in my opinion. It's not a simple task here.

I've had a concealed carry permit for almost 15 years and I've never actually carried in public unless I'm hiking in the woods or camping. *shrugs* I don't really care enough about guns to passionately argue for or against them despite having said permit. It someone cAmE 4 mUh gUnS I think I'd be okay. I guess it would give me an excuse to get some sweet ninja stars or nunchaku though.

And these are definitely examples of common sense and safe gun laws/practices. It 100% makes sense to carry a pistol/rifle while on a hike where you might encounter a bear or cougar and need to scare it off or defend yourself. To have the same mindset and feel the need to open carry on your way to Meijer for a grocery run is what seems so insane to me.

The funny thing is that minus the carry permit, it sounds like MA's fun laws are very similar to Canada's (or at least Ontario's). To be registered to own a gun here you have to take a 2 weekend course on gun handling and safety, have a background check run on you, go to a range to be certified, and then you're only allowed certain semi-automatic guns (I think they can't be modified to become fully automatic, but there's been a lot of debate on that since JT made a few guns illegal that seemed pretty arbitrarily based on "assault style guns" or something). The difference here is that the guns need to be trigger locked and stored in a locked case when being transported, and you're basically only allowed to take it to a shooting range or hunting. Unsure if they also have to be locked away in your home, but I seem to recall that being the case.

 

[KnightBrolaire]

Yeah, 3D printing guns is like the flying car of whacky gun-nutiness. It's always just around the corner and is either the reason to highly restrict or highly unrestrict access depending on what side you're on.

But "80%" kits, which are the "no no bits" of a firearm (the part you need to buy from a licensed dealer*) built to almost completion and come with instructions and jigs that allow you to finish that last 20% with basic hand tools, have been around for years.

Though, legal* stuff is so easy to get that there's little incentive to deal with kits and making your own stuff. It's like no one new to guitar is building a kit, it's just for the nerds like us.

printed AR/AK lowers and basic glock prints have been around for years at this point, along with tons of other designs.

The only limitation is having a decent printer and the proper filament type.

Guerrilas in Myanmar are literally using 3D printed firearms to fight their government right now.
3D printed guns are basically at a point where you can download an svg file and just hit go.

3D-printed guns are being used in the Myanmar civil war

Additive manufacturing, also known as 3D printing, allows for the production of parts without the need for full-scale manufacturing.

www.yahoo.com

 

[DarkstarII]

I read that dad bought a rifle and kid got it. Whether that's because dad was bad dad and bought it for his kid or allowed his kid to use it, or if he didn't lock it up lawfully and hold on to the key where unauthorized users couldn't access it remains to be seen.

Dad's got some splaining to do and my guess is it isn't going to work out too good for him.

Good, it shouldn't work out good for him whether the gun was locked up or not -- we gotta hold family accountable for these idiots, like those two parents in Michigan.

 

[DarkstarII]

I've had a concealed carry permit for almost 15 years and I've never actually carried in public unless I'm hiking in the woods or camping. *shrugs* I don't really care enough about guns to passionately argue for or against them despite having said permit. It someone cAmE 4 mUh gUnS I think I'd be okay. I guess it would give me an excuse to get some sweet ninja stars or nunchaku though.

I too have had a CPL since '08, and while I do carry (rarely) in public, I've never needed it. I HAVE had a few instances where I was glad it was with me (meeting people in parking lots for a Craigslist buy/sell). I actually have the CPL because 'merica gun laws are nuts and its the only way a person can do normal things with a gun (like take it wherever you want in a car or in my camper or something).

 

[MaxOfMetal]

printed AR/AK lowers and basic glock prints have been around for years at this point, along with tons of other designs.

The only limitation is having a decent printer and the proper filament type.

Guerrilas in Myanmar are literally using 3D printed firearms to fight their government right now.
3D printed guns are basically at a point where you can download an svg file and just hit go.

3D-printed guns are being used in the Myanmar civil war

Additive manufacturing, also known as 3D printing, allows for the production of parts without the need for full-scale manufacturing.

www.yahoo.com

Yeah, it exists, but the application is novel at best right now.

It's easier to just buy one, and if you can't pass the background check you just jump on a particular website (not posting it here, but I'm sure you know which one) and go buy one from some Fudd in a van in a Wal-Mart parking lot, no checks or anything.

 

[TedEH]

It 100% makes sense to carry a pistol/rifle while on a hike where you might encounter a bear

Does it? Unless you know exactly what you're doing, a bear can mostly shrug off a gun shot and still maul the shit out of you. Maybe it depends on the kind of bear, but I don't think this is a well thought out bear protection strategy.

do normal things with a gun (like take it wherever you want in a car or in my camper or something).

As a non-american, those don't sound like normal things to do with a gun. Normal things to do with guns would otherwise include: going to a range, protecting livestock from wild animals, hunting, maybe law enforcement but that's a whole topic on its own .... that's pretty much all I can think of honestly.

It's very much not a universal mindset to get ready to leave the house and go "alright, I've got my keys, my wallet, and my deadly weapon". I've known some guys to carry knives around, but they're also the kinds of people to surround themselves with other jackasses who would equally think carrying knives around is a good idea.

 

[BlackMastodon]

Does it? Unless you know exactly what you're doing, a bear can mostly shrug off a gun shot and still maul the shit out of you. Maybe it depends on the kind of bear, but I don't think this is a well thought out bear protection strategy.

I consider it more preventative to try to scare it off before it mauls you. If a bear is on top of you, chances are really good you're already fucked.

 

[KnightBrolaire]

Yeah, it exists, but the application is novel at best right now.

It's easier to just buy one, and if you can't pass the background check you just jump on a particular website (not posting it here, but I'm sure you know which one) and go buy one from some Fudd in a van in a Wal-Mart parking lot, no checks or anything.

I agree that it's mostly a waste of time in the USA with how easy it is to get fully functioning firearms, but I wouldn't say application is novel. Pistols and pistol caliber carbines in particular are extremely easy to make. The german guy who made the fgc-9 file literally has video of him (on vice's youtube channel) shooting it suppressed in his basement in Germany. The Myanmar rebels are just using his design and battle testing it. The floodgates are basically open for anyone in countries with stricter gun laws provided they are properly motivated.

Not to mention there is a very infamous book by a british machinist that explains in detail how to manufacture a submachine gun entirely from stock aluminum and steel (though he did it more as an act of protest rather than an attempt to use it as a weapon).

 

[crushingpetal]

Does it? Unless you know exactly what you're doing, a bear can mostly shrug off a gun shot and still maul the shit out of you. Maybe it depends on the kind of bear, but I don't think this is a well thought out bear protection strategy.

For no other reason than distraction from the horror of current events, what are your tips for good bear protection strategy? Sprays or something?