will_shred
Wannabe audio engineer
- Joined
- Sep 18, 2012
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Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo that title is enough to cause a flame war alone depending on how you define post modernism, which seems to vary from person to person. My previous thread in Off-Topic got me thinking about the political climate on college campuses. The most notable person raising this issue that i'm aware of is Jordan Peterson. Now, I actually have a lot of respect for Peterson, even as someone who could be defined as "far left". The lectures from his classes he uploaded to youtube on personality theory and his class "maps of meaning" are really fascinating, and really there isn't much mention of politics in his classroom. So is his lecture series analyzing passages from the bible. His debate with Sam Harris in Vancouver is also some good food IMO. With that in mind, I use post modernism in the title because of how Peterson defines it. He sort of uses the terms post modernism and "cultural marxism" interchangeably. This is coming from the guy who started the marxism discussion thread, basically arguing in favor of a kind of marxism.
If I understand his position correctly, and I think I've watched enough interviews to say that I do. Peterson defines cultural marxism as, defining people not by their individual personality but by their group identity. Instead of seeing someone as an individual, the post modern theory defines people only in terms of their group identity. As in, you are defined by your race, your sexual orientation, your gender identity, your political party, your music scene, and so on. Post modernism also suggests that all social dynamics are defined by power, with the various factions of people all attempting to gain the upperhand on the others in political power, social power, financial power, and so on. This worldview has tended to alienate young men, especially young white men, by attaching the baggage of the frankly undeniable history of white supremacist, patriarchal, tendencies that have defined much of western history. I think that the crux of petersons argument against how he defines post modernism is two parts, 1) that people are more complex than just their group identity, the moral character of an individual can't be pinned down to their various group identities, it really only comes from actually knowing that person. 2) Social interactions are also far more complex than simple power dynamics, people's actions cannot be boiled down in this way.
Of course, this is the definition of a straw man. You mis-characterize the person you're debating and knock down your own shoddy characterization.
My only experience in college is at my small community college, and I can't say that I've ever met a professor who had beliefs like that, I had one very intelligent english professor who might be defined in this way, but she was more discussing the influences of class and privilege not as defining a person, but as definitely being an undeniable part of that persons identity. I'm interested in hearing from everyone, especially conservatives here. I have heard lots of talk about the "extreme left" taking over college campuses. It seems like a bunch of nonsense to me, but I don't have enough experience in higher education to make that call. I have a very close friend who is transgender who actually agrees that the insular nature of academia has let an extreme left wing ideology grow unchallenged.
What do you think?
If I understand his position correctly, and I think I've watched enough interviews to say that I do. Peterson defines cultural marxism as, defining people not by their individual personality but by their group identity. Instead of seeing someone as an individual, the post modern theory defines people only in terms of their group identity. As in, you are defined by your race, your sexual orientation, your gender identity, your political party, your music scene, and so on. Post modernism also suggests that all social dynamics are defined by power, with the various factions of people all attempting to gain the upperhand on the others in political power, social power, financial power, and so on. This worldview has tended to alienate young men, especially young white men, by attaching the baggage of the frankly undeniable history of white supremacist, patriarchal, tendencies that have defined much of western history. I think that the crux of petersons argument against how he defines post modernism is two parts, 1) that people are more complex than just their group identity, the moral character of an individual can't be pinned down to their various group identities, it really only comes from actually knowing that person. 2) Social interactions are also far more complex than simple power dynamics, people's actions cannot be boiled down in this way.
Of course, this is the definition of a straw man. You mis-characterize the person you're debating and knock down your own shoddy characterization.
My only experience in college is at my small community college, and I can't say that I've ever met a professor who had beliefs like that, I had one very intelligent english professor who might be defined in this way, but she was more discussing the influences of class and privilege not as defining a person, but as definitely being an undeniable part of that persons identity. I'm interested in hearing from everyone, especially conservatives here. I have heard lots of talk about the "extreme left" taking over college campuses. It seems like a bunch of nonsense to me, but I don't have enough experience in higher education to make that call. I have a very close friend who is transgender who actually agrees that the insular nature of academia has let an extreme left wing ideology grow unchallenged.
What do you think?