Prepare yourself for the Schaller Hannes 8string bridge

[angus]

Not if it was done for the person's own purpose. If they did it to resell, then it gets tricky.

I'd still like to read a case in which anyone has won this type of suit.. not copying, but modifying an existing product an selling it as such... a modified product.

Not that I'm planning on doing this, but interesting nonetheless.

For their own purposes, it's fine. Reselling the bridge? Problematic, because you are infringing on an extension of Schaller's (theoretical) patent, as you've merely extended the number of single units of their bridge design from 6 to 8.

When I have a moment later today I'll look to see if they have filed a US or European patent.

 

[Phrygian]

So if I made the bridge myself (buy two original, keep the saddles/ buy saddles and make the bridge) and shipped it to the luthier building my guitar they could not sue me? Interesting.

 

[angus]

They could certainly sue you if they wanted, but it would be difficult to prove that they were infringed upon. If your instrument was then marketed, then it becomes more questionable.

Either way they could sue (because you can sue for anything), but it would be unlikely to go anywhere beyond "threatening", since it would be expensive and pointless for both parties...especially when the scope of that "offense" would be limited to a single scenario.

The whole thing is stupid- how many people are actually going to do this? Well, realistically, pretty much nobody. There is a curious amount of discussion about this.

Either way I'm sure they'll release the 7 and 8 string versions eventually, and everyone who wants one can convert over.

 

[vansinn]

No case has ever been won when someone cuts the front off a VW Beedle and welds a Jaguar front to it - yes, I've seen this done, and they put a 2-liter 6-cyl Porche engine in it too. sticking in under the backseat, hahaha

Anyone can cut and weld/glue two bridges for one's own pleasure, and even send it to a luthier saying "dude, build be an axe with this" - as long as it's for one's own pleasure.
As said above, it's only when a product is made for selling and/or is being rebranded there will be grounds for a case.

 

[Ben.Last]

Well, copyright is for ideas or thoughts, but similar idea, yes.

Yeah. I was using the term copyright as a generalization. The mess encompasses trademarks, patents, etc.

 

[Koloss85]

so, still no plans on 8 string versions? still no updates from Schaller but checking if anyone else knows anything. and is retrofit a possibility?

 

[Danukenator]

If you have the ability to make one for your own use, it's fine. If you sell them, etc. then Schaller has grounds to do something.

 

[Koloss85]

So was that 2013 time frame for 8 bs? If so, homemade sounds like the way to go. It does look cool and comfy

 

[meambobbo]

patents are fucking stupid. yeah, let's give a bunch of gov't idiots with no threat of losing their jobs the athority to say who can and can't make this or that piece of metal or software, of which they have absolutely no real understanding of. All in the name of innovation!!!

/rant

 

[UnderTheSign]

patents are fucking stupid. yeah, let's give a bunch of gov't idiots with no threat of losing their jobs the athority to say who can and can't make this or that piece of metal or software, of which they have absolutely no real understanding of. All in the name of innovation!!!

/rant

Yeah, screw being able to protect your own intellectual property! Designs, like, should totally be availble to everyone you know. People should be able to steal your ideas, innovation man!

 

[blanco]

Doesn't look like any news on a 7 or 8 although i did stumble across this picture of a jaden rose prototype for a fan fretted 6 with hannes. It's an old picture though from 2011. I guess that it never got put into production by Jaden.

Heres the link: Jaden Rose Guitars | British Handcrafted Guitars » JRG Diary 11-8-2011

 

[technomancer]

He was sent a cease and desist letter for putting a modified version of the Hannes into production (he was going to do a guitar model with the modified bridge).

 

[blanco]

Well that sucks. Wonder is schaller would ever work with someone like jaden to help make a production version for them if there is a demand for it. I mean these luthiers go through a large amount of work to make prototypes, although they do know its already patent pending so are aware of the risks and how futile it might be, and it sort seems a shame that schaller wouldn't go ok fair enough you can keep making it but we want your designs so we can make our own and when we have ours for sale you can use ours for a discounted price.

Shows what its possible to do with it though so if people incorporated both the ideas of making the 7 or 8 and then this you could pretty much make anything you like scale and string wise.

 

[meambobbo]

Yeah, screw being able to protect your own intellectual property! Designs, like, should totally be availble to everyone you know. People should be able to steal your ideas, innovation man!

"intellectual property" is a bastardization of the concept of property, which stems from conflict regarding control of SCARCE resources. Ideas are not tangible and are only as scarce as the mediums capable of representing them, which are not infinite but are plentiful. Storing or implementing an idea is non-conflicting - me using idea X does not prevent you from using idea X, unless idea X revolves around some scarce property, in which case we have property laws - no need for intellectual property laws. You can't steal an idea - copying/imitating is not stealing. No one is forcing you to give your designs away and production of intellectual goods has historically occurred at comparable scales both inside of and outside of intellectual property laws. The application of intellectual property is arbitrary, regulated by non-experts, and often creates perverse incentives and unreasonably high barriers to entry. Ever make anything yourself? Ever pay for a patent search and try to "protect" your property? Did you sell your car first? There is not a single study that can reasonably assess the costs of intellectual property and deem it is a net positive.

I think this example is a great case in point - Schaller hasn't yet made 7/8 string versions of this bridge, nor will it likely ever make a fanned fret version. It isn't as though builders are machining their own parts based on their design - they're buying Schaller's parts and assembling them as consumers want. So let's deny people goods AND LEGALLY DENY THEM from assembling such goods, even with parts bought from the company in question, then pretend this is progress. No it's legal monopoly and rent-seeking.

ok, i'm done for now...maybe we can continue this in its own thread later...

 

[Danukenator]

The idea behind copyright laws is that it gives people an incentive to innovate new technology. If a company, just for example a pharmaceutical corporation, decides to develop a new product they will undertake a massive amount of R&D costs. If I own a company, I'd just wait until their product was developed and then produce it myself. I'd be able to undersell them because I don't have the same R&D costs to recoup. Therefore, the original company wouldn't be willing to undertake the research.

Obviously this is just one particular example but point stands, there needs to be some level of protection to have private individuals/companies make their own product. The extent to which this applies is what I'd argue over.

In the instance of the 8 string, I can see their point. I'd say given the amount of time that's passed w/out response is frustrating (I really wanted one for a build ). That's one of the pitfalls of copyright laws and one that should probably be fixed (How? No idea, that's above my paygrade and would probably take some research into company's R&D practices). However, the fanned one is ridiculous. It appears he just modified the "for sale" product by extending the higher strings. Schaller could include those screws (perhaps a set that could be trimmed down, so each screw is 2-3" and then could be cut for the fan) and add something to the original price. This is where copyright bugs me. It's preventing a practical advancement of the product.

 

[blanco]

Yeah i'd start the whole copyrighting thing in a new thread. Its a mine field and is a little off topic for this thread and normally gets out of hand.
I wanted more to point out that if people where to acquire the official parts for themselves then there is a nice picture of how to make a multiscale version.

 

[Compton]

oooohh dang, thats cooo

 

[meambobbo]

so I made a thread for the intellectual property debate:
http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/po...-property-opinions-arguments.html#post3475197