The Role of Government (Formerly Net Neutrality Thread)

[Spaced Out Ace]

You don't fucking say

Perhaps that's why he's spent the majority of this thread completely off topic.

 

[Mathemagician]

I dont have the best understanding of this topic since its confusing.

Finally. 6 pages of most of us replying to someone who is either trolling or flat out refusing to admit they’re out of their element.

 

[Unleash The Fury]

Im not trolling. A troll would be somebody who comes on here with the intention of pissing people off. Thats not my intention. I just have to respond to ten different people who usually hold the opposite view point as myself. I came here and posted a link to a Ron Paul website with his opinion on net neutrality.

I just know that whatever big brother touches it gets destroyed. Like when Woodrow Wilson signed in the Federal Reserve act in 1913; it allowed government to borrow money at interest to no end while making people pay federal income tax to pay back that interest. Like when obama implemented the AHA and it did the opposite of making healthcare "affordable" for the majority of people. Does no one see anything wrong with having to pay a $900 fine for not having healthcare? But i know it wasnt Obamas doing, entirely. Sure he could have not signed it in, but he did. But it wasnt his creation. I know that this AHA plan has been in the works for quite some time. Like how the Patriot Act was written 20 years before it was implemented by Bush. Yes a conspiracy. Net neutrality is no different. And wether it gets repealed or not, its to big brothers benefit, and any benefits we get from their decision is an unintentional side-perk. Im not sure where i stand with net neutrality yet because i can see the pros and cons to it. Its just that the government in the U.S. has a large history of fucking the people its supposed to work for.

Has anyone looked at both the pros and cons of repealing it or just the cons? I do see the cons of repealing it but fwiw i dont remember the internet being that much different before 2015........besides theres being a lot less unskippable advertisements.

 

[narad]

It's gotta be weird spending your whole life thinking everyone is out to get you.

btw, companies aren't lobbying to go back to how things were pre-2015. Pre-2015, things weren't being throttled or package specific to content source, and there is no incentive for ISPs to lobby for the freedom to change things, and then not do it.

The only possible pro I could see is that ISPs could negotiate with streaming service providers like Netflix, so then perhaps your ISP charges you $5 less a month, etc., because they'll be getting a ton of money from Google/FB/netflix/hulu/amazon. The fact that these companies were lobbying for NN makes me suspect this would be why.

Even as a customer, I prefer it as is. Just every interaction with Comcast makes me feel like they're incompetent and make every trivial change sound like a technically challenging thing. Ex: ever have internet service turned back on at a residence where you already have the gear? You'll still pay a like $40 surcharge for them to basically add your address in their computer, and it'll take 3 days. This makes me think that if I'm going to pay the same price for my current set of streaming things, I'd rather have more money go to Netflix and less go to Comcast. Repealing NN opens up the reverse. Netflix also wasn't established on the backbone of billions of taxpaper dollars.

 

[Mathemagician]

1) Calling the entire federal government “big brother” reeks of conspiracy theories.

2) The federal reserve is the only unit of the US government that turns a profit. The fed lends to banks and earns a (very very small) spread.

3) No not “everything” the federal government touches goes bad, public schools, the parks system, the FDA, public libraries, hospitals, I could go on.

These things could use MORE funding, not “unregulated private competition”.

Because public schools establish a baseline of education, private schools have to offer even BETTER resources/etc to be worth the cost to parents.

Without publicly funded systems in place, the private sector doesn’t even have to try.

And as for regulation: If science education wasn’t mandatory most schools in the Midwest would just have “god did it” as the explanation to everything.

It’s tiring when people don’t realize that the “private options” should have a good federal baseline to COMPETE with. If everyone has access to $50/mo GIGAbit municipal internet like several cities in Colorado and Tennessee (among others) have, then your Comcast wouldn’t fucking cost $300/mo for “up to” 200megabit (1/5 of a gigabit).

Oligopolies don’t compete, they price fix. OPEC is 4 countries that together and nearly single handedly alone set the price of oil.

 

[Spaced Out Ace]

2) The federal reserve is the only unit of the US government that turns a profit. The fed lends to banks and earns a (very very small) spread.

Meanwhile, we go into debt every time they print money.

3) No not “everything” the federal government touches goes bad, public schools, the parks system, the FDA, public libraries, hospitals, I could go on.

Public schools in America are a joke.

And as for regulation: If science education wasn’t mandatory most schools in the Midwest would just have “god did it” as the explanation to everything.

Yeah, because everyone in the Midwest is just some knuckle-dragging country bumpkin hillbilly, right?

Fucking Christ. I love how it's perfectly A-Okay to stereotype certain people while other people are held on a pedestal and if you demean them with a stereotype, you're an asshole.

 

[Mathemagician]

Do you know what education MOST people would have if public school didn’t exist? None. And like I said, they need MORE funding, not less.

“Starve the beast” is the policy system enacted by anyone that wants to “prove” a program of system is worthless. Keep funding it less and less so the “results” (decreasing test scores for schools, low revenue for Amtrak due to few if any routes being desirable) and boom a few years later there’s your “evidence” that the thing doesn’t work.

Because they crippled the horse then told it to run a race.

 

[narad]

Public schools in America are a joke.

They're in a bit of a crisis currently, but previously they've done quite well (by international standards). This could be its own thread, but suffice to say, the having performed well in the past I think is evidence that there's nothing inherent in their publicness that makes them a joke, apart from stifling education funding. And to note, that public schools don't exclude the existence of private schools - just most people not having $30k a year to send their kids there makes it a rarer option.

 

[Mathemagician]

Yeah, because everyone in the Midwest is just some knuckle-dragging country bumpkin hillbilly, right?

Fucking Christ. I love how it's perfectly A-Okay to stereotype certain people while other people are held on a pedestal and if you demean them with a stereotype, you're an asshole.

Wanted to touch in this one separately.

I grew up in the south. With a fundamentalist family. I KNOW what I’m talking about. Jesus dude, I myself used to argue that stuff.

I’m not stereotyping, I’m speaking from first hand experience.

Assuming that I’m just generalizing is you grasping at straws. Rural areas in all countries always have a higher concentration of religious conservatism. This is not opinion it’s fact. In the US it’s Christianity. For white/black/Spanish people in the US it’s Christianity.

Who called anyone a bumpkin? It’s the excuse used by the conservative majority of voters that make up the “anti-choice” crowd. “It’s against Jesus”.

The Bible Belt is the single largest and most consistent voting block.

 

[Unleash The Fury]

1) Calling the entire federal government “big brother” reeks of conspiracy theories.

2) The federal reserve is the only unit of the US government that turns a profit. The fed lends to banks and earns a (very very small) spread.

3) No not “everything” the federal government touches goes bad, public schools, the parks system, the FDA, public libraries, hospitals, I could go on.

These things could use MORE funding, not “unregulated private competition”.

Because public schools establish a baseline of education, private schools have to offer even BETTER resources/etc to be worth the cost to parents.

Without publicly funded systems in place, the private sector doesn’t even have to try.

And as for regulation: If science education wasn’t mandatory most schools in the Midwest would just have “god did it” as the explanation to everything.

It’s tiring when people don’t realize that the “private options” should have a good federal baseline to COMPETE with. If everyone has access to $50/mo GIGAbit municipal internet like several cities in Colorado and Tennessee (among others) have, then your Comcast wouldn’t fucking cost $300/mo for “up to” 200megabit (1/5 of a gigabit).

Oligopolies don’t compete, they price fix. OPEC is 4 countries that together and nearly single handedly alone set the price of oil.

Ahem. The federal reserve is NOT a unit of the federal government, they are a private entity. You just showed that you know 0. Zero about how the economy works

 

[Mathemagician]

Oh goddamnit dude, fuck right off.

The fact that they do not directly report as a government entity is why they cannot be controlled by political whims. And the fed’s revenue goes directly into the US treasury coffers so...

It’s why mouth-breathing “gut feelings” voters constantly whine that the Fed should answer to Congress. Because they don’t understand that it should be independent.

To;dr - is the last line from what follows.


Here’s a copy/paste definition:

“The Department of the Treasury and Federal Reserve work together in an effort to maintain a stable economy. The Federal Reserve serves as the government's banker, processing transactions, such as accepting electronic payments for Social Security taxes, issuing payroll checks to government employees and clearing checks for tax payments and other government receivables.

The Federal Reserve and the Department of the Treasury also work together to borrow money when the government needs to raise cash. The Federal Reserve issues U.S. Treasury securities and conducts Treasury securities auctions, selling these securities on behalf of the Department of the Treasury.

The Federal Reserve and the Department of the Treasury are also linked in another way. The Federal Reserve is a nonprofit company. After their expenses are paid, any remaining profits are paid to the Department of the Treasury. The Department of the Treasury then uses that money to fund government spending. It's a relationship that produces a considerable amount of money. The Federal Reserve System contributed in excess of $29 billion to the Treasury in 2006, according to the Federal Reserve Board (FRB). So, the Federal Reserve not only helps to make and implement policies, it also serves as the government's bank and generates a portion of the revenue used to fund the country's activities.

 

[StevenC]

Let's not forget that the USA isn't the only example in the world of a government. The US government doesn't do public systems particularly well because half of the country thinks socialism is a dirty word. The US government is not a good arguing point for libertarianism.

Northern Ireland, despite how much of a shitshow our politics is, has the best school system in the world and it's 100% free. Our public schools are so good that our private schools can't compete. We also have the NHS which is 100% free.

My cousin lives in America but grew up in NI. He has to spend thousands of dollars a year to have his 4 year old get a comparable education to what he was given for free. EDIT: So that if he returns to NI his kids won't be way behind, but only kinda behind.

Don't judge social governance by a bad example of it.

 

[Unleash The Fury]

This is a great video to learn about how the federal reserve operates; how it came into existence, and how they masquerade as an entity OF the united states (really they just operate within). This video was an eye opener for me. It will be for anyone who takes the time to watch it. G. Edward Griffin wrote a book about this, and this video is basically just a summary of what the book is about.

You have to dig deep to find the truth. A "quick google search" is only going to give you the top mainstream, pre-frozen, packaged and prepared , bite-sized propaganda.......in most cases.

And "god dammit dude fuck right off", is that necessary?

 

[Unleash The Fury]

1) Calling the entire federal government “big brother” reeks of conspiracy theories.

2) The federal reserve is the only unit of the US government that turns a profit. The fed lends to banks and earns a (very very small) spread.

3) No not “everything” the federal government touches goes bad, public schools, the parks system, the FDA, public libraries, hospitals, I could go on.

These things could use MORE funding, not “unregulated private competition”.

Because public schools establish a baseline of education, private schools have to offer even BETTER resources/etc to be worth the cost to parents.

Without publicly funded systems in place, the private sector doesn’t even have to try.

And as for regulation: If science education wasn’t mandatory most schools in the Midwest would just have “god did it” as the explanation to everything.

It’s tiring when people don’t realize that the “private options” should have a good federal baseline to COMPETE with. If everyone has access to $50/mo GIGAbit municipal internet like several cities in Colorado and Tennessee (among others) have, then your Comcast wouldn’t fucking cost $300/mo for “up to” 200megabit (1/5 of a gigabit).

Oligopolies don’t compete, they price fix. OPEC is 4 countries that together and nearly single handedly alone set the price of oil.

Opec? Apparently you are ignorant of what the "petro-dollar" is, and how all of those countries are forced to buy/sell using the american dollar. I suggest you research that as well. Also google "BRICS nations", and how some countries are coming together to drop the petro dollar altogether. (The US hates that. Thats the real reason were on the verge of WW3)

Public schools are indoctrinating kids dumbing them down with common core. You wouldnt believe how many kids cant even read a clock or tie their shoes in todays times. Public education is gov't indoctrination.

The FDA is all conventional wisdom bullshit too. Theres more sick people and more disease than ever.

 

[StevenC]

Public schools are indoctrinating kids dumbing them down with common core. You wouldnt believe how many kids cant even read a clock or tie their shoes in todays times. Public education is gov't indoctrination.

Again, that's an example of a poorly run system, not of public schools being inherently bad. As I've said already, the schools I attended for free are better than the best schools money can buy in America.

Also, seems kind of contradictory to criticise the ability of the kids today and also not care about spelling, grammar, or effective communication.

 

[Unleash The Fury]

Again, that's an example of a poorly run system, not of public schools being inherently bad. As I've said already, the schools I attended for free are better than the best schools money can buy in America.

Also, seems kind of contradictory to criticise the ability of the kids today and also not care about spelling, grammar, or effective communication.

When im using my phone, i care not about correct spelling. Typos and such are abound and to be expected. If i was sitting down at my computer i would do everything correctly. But on thr phone all bets are off. Lol

Also, you have a good point about the school system thing

 

[StevenC]

When im using my phone, i care not about correct spelling. Typos and such are abound and to be expected. If i was sitting down at my computer i would do everything correctly. But on thr phone all bets are off. Lol

Also, you have a good point about the school system thing

I also mentioned grammar and communication. FYI saying you "care not" makes you sound condescending. Maybe you're doing that because you're trying to condescend, or maybe you think it makes you sound smart. But you say it consistently. Noticing that is called reading comprehension. You haven't really demonstrated the same, so again I think it's unfair for you to criticise the kids today.

 

[thraxil]

I'd be more OK with net neutrality being repealed if the government actually prevented regional ISP monopolies. I lived in five different apartments in NYC during my twenty years there. In every single one of them, I had exactly one option for cable internet. TWC in some buildings, RCN in others. I spent the last two years checking regularly to see if Verizon was offering FiOS on my block yet. I don't know exactly how it works, but ISPs have exclusive holds on most buildings. If I didn't like the service I was getting from TWC, my only option was... dialup? Back in rural Maine, my dad *finally* got crappy DSL service to his house about two years ago. Again, no other option for him but dialup. He doesn't even get cell phone service out there so going over 4G isn't feasible either.

So I get the argument that NN is meddlesome anti-capitalist market interference, but it's NOT a free market in most places.

 

[Electric Wizard]

Public schools are indoctrinating kids dumbing them down with common core. You wouldnt believe how many kids cant even read a clock or tie their shoes in todays times.

I remember people saying the same things about my cohort 20 years ago over velcro shoes and digital clocks. I'm not necessarily defending common core because I don't know about it, but these scary claims precede it.

 

[StevenC]

Socrates was critical of the kids of the day.