ViK Duality 7 QM

[narad]

But guess what? In a market where you can get a guitar that in my opinion plays better than what a Vik will for the money, with less than 6 months of a wait time, I would take it in a heartbeat.

Have you played a Vik? There's something a bit illogical if you haven't: you imagine what you want it to play like, then imagine the PRS playing better. I love the amount of people on Facebook chiming in on every blackmachine post, "You don't know what you're talking about - this is a masterpiece! Best guitars ever.", when statistically it's obvious most have not played one.

But aside from all that, digging through my old emails I was astounded to remember how great Vik's customer service was in 2011. There's so much negativity now that it was easy to forget. Plenty of reasonably long replies to nailing down my specs with like a day of turn around between each response, learning a lot about different woods and designs in the process. It's just a shame it is what it is now. I had an email a couple weeks ago saying there was progress and pics were incoming, then I see a Facebook post a few days later along the lines of "Processing so many pictures", and I got all giddy. Nope. That's for someone who is willing to pay a bunch of money now.

So I'm still hoping these are just growing pains, but I'm not going to downplay the experience either. It hasn't been a nightmare, but it's not just a few people getting their guitars before me. I imagine it's more than a dozen, I can count 8 right now just thinking about it. And Leo - if your guitar is at NAMM then it's quite possible you could go from 0 to 3 Viks all within the span of me placing my deposit, which is ridiculous.

 

[asfeir]

I don't get the PRS PS comparison btw. 5000$ for a VIK, If the hype is true, is not that much when you compare it to the other custom shops in Europe. 5000USD or 3700EUR won't get you a nicely spec'd Ruokangas, Huber, Hartung etc..

 

[leonardo7]

And Leo - if your guitar is at NAMM then it's quite possible you could go from 0 to 3 Viks all within the span of me placing my deposit, which is ridiculous.

Totally understandable and ridiculous to think of it that way for sure. My two Dualities I have now were not ordered and spec'd by me. The ViW was his first in-stock since he became a name and I bought that one in April '12. The Green one was actually already mostly built and then finished for promotional purposes at Messe. The neck was made for Tosin and then Tosin wanted a fanned so ViK was happy to put the neck aside and make Tosin what he wants, eventually. As far as my upcoming build, ViK really wanted it to be at NAMM so he is finishing it up, but hes been working on the neck slowly for a year now and the body was glued and cut a while back. Trust me, its been quite a while since I placed the order, you dont even want to know. I hope you get yours soon man. What are the specs?

 

[themike]

There was an interesting comment on that video of the Duality when he posted it on Facebook:

I'd love to know how he dries his wood for 8 years in a one man operation, or does he buy it from a supplier who states its dried for 8 years? I mean has Vik even been making guitars publicly for 8 years?

And people keep bringing up PRS in this thread (I guess for price comparison?) so I'll just chime in for a second that they have a very important process for drying their guitars. They may not take 8 years to dry, but its done with sniper precision and brought down to [I believe] 7% moisture and each blank knocks like a woodblock and sustains longer than I care to hear - it's pretty impressive.

Also here is an interesting tidbit about their lumber because education is our friend :

Depending on the type of wood and the age of the tree, it can vary quite a bit. The mahogany we use is generally 50–100 years old when it’s cut. Almost all of the mahogany we use now is FSC–certified (Forest Stewardship Council) and comes from Central America with a small amount coming out of Peru. The maple we use for our tops and necks is generally about the same age. The spruce we use for Acoustics is also FSC–certified and tends to be a little older, generally around 150–175 years old. Anything that comes from new wood goes through a lengthy drying process that can take up to a year in some cases. We do sometimes have salvaged wood and also reclaimed wood as well. All of our Brazilian rosewood falls into this category. Some may have been cut as long ago as 150–175 years. Our Indian rosewood comes from plantation grown trees generally not much older than 50 years, and some from wild trees that grew in India that the government harvests and sells at auction. All wild rosewood trees in India are owned by the government and are carefully managed for sustainability, so the supply there is very stable. We obviously have many other types of wood we use, but that is at least a brief overview.

That is their requirements for PRODUCTION LINE body wood!

 

[Jonathan20022]

Have you played a Vik? There's something a bit illogical if you haven't: you imagine what you want it to play like, then imagine the PRS playing better. I love the amount of people on Facebook chiming in on every blackmachine post, "You don't know what you're talking about - this is a masterpiece! Best guitars ever.", when statistically it's obvious most have not played one.

It's not illogical, I'm using reason like anyone else would without buying into the hype train for guitars and luthiers who manage a business this way. An instrument is only worth what a buyer is willing to pay for it, within reason of course. I've had the incredible chance to play two Private Stocks, and I can without a doubt say that they're easily one of the nicest guitars I've ever laid hands on. They may not be my thing long term, I'm much more into shredder's guitars with insane playability and the sound I look for.

If you as a customer are looking into a high end instrument, rather than specifically a Vik. I would point you to other builders and custom shops that offer equal if not better service and instruments. I don't see why musicians have accepted the notion of waiting so long and paying as much as you do, sometimes blindly for a high quality instrument. I'm not making baseless claims just to stir the rumor mill, I literally ....ing despise that and nothing pisses me off more than people most times younger musicians idolizing certain instruments as the holy grail. Most times with NO experience whatsoever.

Simply put, if you have the patience and specifically want a Vik then that's on you. But the matter of the fact is that he's not the holy grail and the best guitar builder out there right now, there is no such thing.

I doubt most of the people in this thread are involved or have played a Vik before anyways. So that's why 2 cents.

 

[Lorcan Ward]

I doubt most of the people in this thread are involved or have played a Vik before anyways. So that's why 2 cents.

You still haven't answered if you've played a Vik yet?

 

[narad]

I'm not making baseless claims just to stir the rumor mill, I literally ....ing despise that and nothing pisses me off more than people most times younger musicians idolizing certain instruments as the holy grail. Most times with NO experience whatsoever.

If you're making a comparison between two things and you don't have any experience with one of them, that's pretty baseless. You can't say that a PRS PS is "a guitar that in my opinion plays better than what a Vik will for the money" when you haven't played a Vik. That's nonsense.

 

[skeels]

...the fact is that he's not the holy grail and the best guitar builder out there right now, there is no such thing...

This right here.

Nope, I've never played one of his guit-boxes. Neither have I played a Blackmachine. Or a KxK for that matter. Frankly, I haven't played a lot of guitars. Certainly not enough to be considered an expert by any means- not by the standards set by "experts" anyways.

I am not really keen on dropping that kind of cash on an instrument I can't rightly vouch for in the first place. Not that I would.. Seems kind of stuffy to me. A good player can take a beater and make it sound good.

Sure, there are players that want the "best" that they can get. Or at least something "special", if not "nice". You go.

Do I really care about his prices? Nope. Do I really care if they are inflated from 3 or 4 K to 9 or 10 K? Nope. I'm too cheap, stubborn or broke to care that much.

Am I being a snob? Is this the reverse side of the same coin?

Guess what? Don't care.

Maybe you shouldn't either.


"You" meaning "us". Not anyone in particular. Just seems like this has turned into another exciting episode of "SSO 90210"

 

[Jonathan20022]

You still haven't answered if you've played a Vik yet?

If you're making a comparison between two things and you don't have any experience with one of them, that's pretty baseless. You can't say that a PRS PS is "a guitar that in my opinion plays better than what a Vik will for the money" when you haven't played a Vik. That's nonsense.

I meant to put that in my previous post, no I have not in fact played a Vik guitars before. Sorry if I didn't make that more clear or evident before.

And I still believe that, because simply put there isn't some magical technique Vik uses to make these guitars play and sound the way they do. Well, sans the pickup winding because that's something you can choose to voice any way you prefer. He's just a great luthier who makes sure that there aren't faults in the build, and sets them up really well to make them play the way they do.

What if I end up getting my hands on a Vik and it's disappointing because of it's travel from the origin country to mine? Would that make my opinion baseless also if the action was high and there was a bow in the neck? It's a guitar guys, he's not reinventing the wheel or anything, he's just doing what I think EVERY luthier should be doing. Make sure the build isn't botched up before it leaves the shop, and keep the quality consistent. The fact that I haven't played one before doesn't diminish my point. You're basically saying that every comparison between pieces of gear is baseless and incorrect if they haven't been played side by side, which I should agree with you to some degree. You should play a guitar or be familiar with it before laying down some hard cash for it, that's the ideal situation for any guitarist. But sadly in most cases, and in this one especially, that just isn't possible.

I understand your point, I haven't played it so I shouldn't run my mouth. I just don't buy into hype, especially the kind of hype where it requires me to invest thousands and a ridiculous amount of time before I can see the product of both those things

 

[Andromalia]

This is a part of capitalism, so again, there is nothing inherently wrong with it.

Maybe you just put the finger on it, actually. But I'm just an evil french commie who knows nothing

 

[Roland777]

You would really let the way he publicly stated on his Facebook page his distaste for people who are copying his designs get in the way of owning an incredible guitar? I dont give a shit about what he says on his Facebook page about people copying his guitars, its non of my business. I still want his guitars

This guy again...

Seriously, whenever the righteously flamed business-practices of Vik comes into conversation, you show up as a loyal fluffer. Beyond a certain point of a builder fvcking his customers over, I don't give a shit about his product - THAT is what makes sure that I, and several others, will never place an order with him. I don't care that you have a guitar of his, I couldn't care less if you had ten - if I have to wait for more than two years after being quoted a significantly shorter waiting time, WHILE watching the man churn out stock guitars for the highest bidder and essentially telling people who've been standing in line for months, if not years, to go fvck themselves because there's more money to be made in other places, then yeah, I don't care if the guitar comes with a blowjob. He's not getting money on principle.

Go on, tell us one more time how you "dont mean to defend Vik", but then "in Viks defense" mean to tell us something.

 

[Lorcan Ward]

I meant to put that in my previous post, no I have not in fact played a Vik guitars before. Sorry if I didn't make that more clear or evident before.

Not only have you spent your last few posts saying how much you hate people like YOURSELF who talk about guitars they've never played it also makes your opinion completely baseless and everything you say from here on out in this thread can't be taken seriously.

I love this forum and I've made a lot of friends here but when we have these intelligent debates can people please refrain from talking crap about guitars & gear they've never played.

Also there is no best guitar, its all personal. PRS Private stocks are amazing, Viks are amazing, Blackmachines are amazing, my J-custom is amazing etc We should all just enjoy them for being amazing guitars and be happy luthiers/builders are prepared to sink in untold hours into perfecting an instrument for what most times ends up as a minimum wage job.

 

[AxeHappy]

Maybe Vik is a dick but he was a class ....ing act when I got ....ed over and had to bail on one of the recent run. *shrug* And that was about him giving me money back.

 

[Jonathan20022]

Not only have you spent your last few posts saying how much you hate people like YOURSELF who talk about guitars they've never played it also makes your opinion completely baseless and everything you say from here on out in this thread can't be taken seriously.

I love this forum and I've made a lot of friends here but when we have these intelligent debates can people please refrain from talking crap about guitars & gear they've never played.

Also there is no best guitar, its all personal. PRS Private stocks are amazing, Viks are amazing, Blackmachines are amazing, my J-custom is amazing etc We should all just enjoy them for being amazing guitars and be happy luthiers/builders are prepared to sink in untold hours into perfecting an instrument for what most times ends up as a minimum wage job.

Or you can not actually reply to any of my points and just post a meme and then exaggerate my post. I can understand why, as you have one currently on the way, but how can you be an open supporter of intelligent discussion if you don't even respond properly to another person's comment?

"LOL M8 SUCKS TO SUCK, BUT YOUR OPINION SUCKS", in the form of a meme doesn't seem like it's adding much in and of itself. And if you're going to be technical, I've only mentioned that I despise the "people" who do things like praise mythical instruments in one post. I haven't actually defamed or talked crap about the man's instruments, just trying to wake people up to this idolizing of something they haven't played. And you're throwing out anyone's opinion who hasn't played one of these instruments, which renders most of this thread in your eyes as baseless conjecture. Either way, Vik could be running his business in a much better, less detrimental way. If you approve of some of the tactics and his terrible social media presence then I have nothing to say to you.

Then if somehow I magically end up playing one, I'll have the seal of approval and I can have my opinion valid once more!

 

[drmosh]

Maybe Vik is a dick but he was a class ....ing act when I got ....ed over and had to bail on one of the recent run. *shrug* And that was about him giving me money back.

I've met Vik and I own 3 of his guitars, he is most certainly not a "dick" or an "asshole" as stated in other posts here.
Also, the assumptions made on the selling price are frankly ridiculous

 

[Lorcan Ward]

I wasn't going to bother replying to this but since you had to neg rep me for calling you out I'll explain.

you can get a guitar that in my opinion plays better than what a Vik will for the money

no I have not in fact played a Vik guitars before.

I doubt most of the people in this thread are involved or have played a Vik before anyways. So that's why 2 cents.

You can't expect to ever be taken seriously on this forum with saying things like this, Hence the funny meme to point out how you're trying to degrade Viks and talk down on people who've never played one and give their opinion on them yet you've never played one but somehow are able to judge them.

Yes I do agree that blindly jumping on a hi-end guitar because its cool is a very risky thing to do. Playing some of these guitars is not an option for most people but I can't imagine any electric guitar player being disappointed with any of the hi-end custom shops.

Back on topic. Anytime I've talked to Vik he's been a really cool guy. I didn't get to talk to him much at Messe though since there were a 100 amps turned up to 11 making conversation near impossible but from Facebook and through emails he's a very down to earth guy who absolutely loves his craft. I would like to know the reason behind the in-stock builds though and why some guys customs are very late.

 

[thrsher]

Back on topic. Anytime I've talked to Vik he's been a really cool guy. I didn't get to talk to him much at Messe though since there were a 100 amps turned up to 11 making conversation near impossible but from Facebook and through emails he's a very down to earth guy who absolutely loves his craft. I would like to know the reason behind the in-stock builds though and why some guys customs are very late.

EDIT*
going to MESSE, going to NAMM, starting a USA production line, he needs to cover these expenses and i get that. its business but putting a hault to current customer orders should not stop, a plan should be put into place. myself and many orders were around before these things were even a forethought. he chooses to do these things, OK, no problem, whats your plan for your current orders?? not working on them is not acceptable. giving me false answers to keep me at bay is not acceptable either, that's bad customer service. you know you have given me these timelines and none have been met, no apologizes and its as if he never even said them to me. viks customer service has only declined since starting to work with him. he has completely abandoned his forum of updates, which was a great selling point. he pretty much ignores emails and i have to catch him on FB. his currently appointed customer relations guys is no where to even be found in this thread and other customers have to come to the rescue. at the end of the day, Alain and Paul have given these guy prob over 20k combined, of course they are going to get excellent service from the guy.

 

[Jonathan20022]

I wasn't going to bother replying to this but since you had to neg rep me for calling you out I'll explain.

You can't expect to ever be taken seriously on this forum with saying things like this, Hence the funny meme to point out how you're trying to degrade Viks and talk down on people who've never played one and give their opinion on them yet you've never played one but somehow are able to judge them.

Yes I do agree that blindly jumping on a hi-end guitar because its cool is a very risky thing to do. Playing some of these guitars is not an option for most people but I can't imagine any electric guitar player being disappointed with any of the hi-end custom shops.

Back on topic. Anytime I've talked to Vik he's been a really cool guy. I didn't get to talk to him much at Messe though since there were a 100 amps turned up to 11 making conversation near impossible but from Facebook and through emails he's a very down to earth guy who absolutely loves his craft. I would like to know the reason behind the in-stock builds though and why some guys customs are very late.

Don't worry, I really don't care about neg-rep and never have. It's so easy to abuse that system anyways that it's a terrible judge of character most times.

Either way if you don't take me seriously, then what can I do? I didn't post what I did looking to win people over, that's just my thoughts on the matter. It's a discussion not "let's see how many people I can get to agree with me" If you read it over again, I was talking about what I would personally wait for an instrument to be made, I'm not speaking for everyone.

Looking past all that, I'm glad we can at least agree on that even though risky is putting it lightly when the instrument can never come to fruition for various reasons. And there's been countless cases of custom shop instruments being disappointing or just sub-par, didn't Jackson just send out a guitar with 23 Frets? I stand by my point, if your issue with my comments is me using the word "better" in comparison to other instruments made to absurdly high standards then that's just silly.

 

[TemjinStrife]

Threads like these are why I'm glad I don't have crazy unique tastes, and can play dozens or hundreds of production instruments of all types, prices, and variations until I find one that "speaks" to me.

It's a hell of a lot faster, easier, and less stressful than going the custom route and praying that I bond with it when it finally gets to me, many months and thousands of dollars later.

That is, IF said custom instrument were to get to me in the first place

 

[asfeir]

Threads like these are why I'm glad I don't have crazy unique tastes, and can play dozens or hundreds of production instruments of all types, prices, and variations until I find one that "speaks" to me.

It's a hell of a lot faster, easier, and less stressful than going the custom route and praying that I bond with it when it finally gets to me, many months and thousands of dollars later.

You can do both and get the best of both worlds