ViK Duality 7 QM

[narad]

My Duality slays every single guitar I have ever played. I swear it really does. It looks like my Saviour 8FF is going to be on display at NAMM, as is Lorcan's and a few others. Mine has a super rare Sabah Ebony top with Black Limba body and rosewood neck and ebony board. Look for it if your there.

While that's pretty awesome and I wish I had thought to do a Saviour 8FF, I went to check out Vik's list to see where that order would be on the list:

vikguitars.com • View topic - Projects on order

I'm doubtful that my guitar (at #4 there) will be done by NAMM, I don't see your slot and Lorcan's down at #18 & 19. Unless I'm missing something, pretty ridiculous stuff. Finger's crossed because otherwise I have to pay a 20% VAT importing it into the UK after I move in February. You know I just love throwing away a thousand dollars because builders are working on NAMM specials.

 

[technomancer]

Brazillian rosewood is available on PRODUCTION guitars now, let alone Private Stocks. I know someone who just ordered a Brazilian rosewood TOP and yes, for under 10k. Sweetwater is a great company but their not very competitive with Private Stock guitars at all.

I believe that guitar is as expensive as it is because it might be international Brazilian rosewood, which comes with all the needed legal documentation to cross boarders. This makes it sought after because a lot of the words brazzy is reclaimed, and sometimes a pile of 200 year old wood doesn't always come with receipts

It's got the USA only on the back of the headstock. The brazilian neck does definitely add to the price though.

However if you pick up the phone you can likely get it for substantially less than that posted price... if you pay list for an in stock Private Stock from a dealer you've either got more money than you know what to do with or were too lazy to make a phone call and look around

Then again that's true with most music products. If you call MF you can usually get 15% off of just about anything they have listed that's not already on sale

 

[themike]

Not to mention if you pick up the phone you can like get it for substantially less than that posted price

Haha yeah, just like most other dealers they post MAP and not actual pricing on those things. But I also revisited the photos and that guitar is NOT international brazzy contrary to what your speedy, ninjaquoting abilities caught me saying

 

[technomancer]

Haha yeah, just like most other dealers they post MAP and not actual pricing on those things. But I also revisited the photos and that guitar is NOT international brazzy contrary to what your speedy, ninjaquoting abilities caught me saying

 

[themike]

And I may be wrong, but doesn't Stealth run the "Guitar Porn" Facebook group with Engage? And did that group hype to high heaven Vik doing a Q&A on there recently? Seems like he knew he was getting his soon and wanted to build a nice cushion before the flip!

 

[thrsher]

While that's pretty awesome and I wish I had thought to do a Saviour 8FF, I went to check out Vik's list to see where that order would be on the list:

vikguitars.com • View topic - Projects on order

I'm doubtful that my guitar (at #4 there) will be done by NAMM, I don't see your slot and Lorcan's down at #18 & 19. Unless I'm missing something, pretty ridiculous stuff. Finger's crossed because otherwise I have to pay a 20% VAT importing it into the UK after I move in February. You know I just love throwing away a thousand dollars because builders are working on NAMM specials.

THIS RIGHT HERE. MORE CUSTOMERS BEING SCREWED

 

[Xaios]

And I may be wrong, but doesn't Stealth run the "Guitar Porn" Facebook group with Engage? And did that group hype to high heaven Vik doing a Q&A on there recently? Seems like he knew he was getting his soon and wanted to build a nice cushion before the flip!

Stealth and Engage aren't the only ones. In fact, one of them has posted in this very thread (not going to say who, in case he would rather remain anonymous).

 

[Hollowway]

I have zero problem with luthiers increasing their prices to whatever the market will bear. That's the whole idea, really. It controls the quality of the instrument (because if the quality drops, so will demand, and in turn price). It controls the build time (because higher prices decrease demand). And it helps the luthier run a full time business. But it is also true that our particular group on here is apt to let the subjective, biased opinions of the few sway us all into believing that something is crap or godly. I've seen EMGs bashed to the point you almost couldn't give away an 808 a few years ago. And I've seen particular brands of guitars get hyped to the point it seems pretty evident there's a bubble. I've played enough high end guitars to believe that there is not going to be a noticeable playability difference between a $4000 and $10,000 guitar. I think it's great that Vik is able to get $10,000 for his guitars, if that's what people will pay, but I also think it's ridiculous to think that they're better than anything else out there.

On a separate note, I don't like the idea of using a guitar as a speculative investment. I don't like these auctions, and I don't like people "pumping and dumping" guitars during a flip. Guitars are meant to be a tool to create. If they are to be used as a work of art, or a piece of furniture, or a speculative investment, so be it. But it's disingenuous to try to combine them and say that brand X costs so much more because it plays better than anything else out there.

 

[JP Universe]

It definitely did. It is of course in character but I've talked to him plenty about this.

+1 I chat to him regularly and his distaste with Vik was evident through all stages of the build. He blocked him on FB as well....

 

[Rook]

Stealth and Engage aren't the only ones. In fact, one of them has posted in this very thread (not going to say who, in case he would rather remain anonymous).

I assume you mean me?

There's nothing shady about guitar porn, we each contribute to it in our own way, it fun a vehicle for communication. We don't all sit around a big wooden table with our fingers splayed against one another discussing what evil things we're gunna do next in deep voices.

Zack organised the Vik q&a and it was some time ago now, a lot has transpired since then.

Anyway, I like to think I'm a very open and honest person, if I felt associating with something or someone would be something I'd want to hide I just wouldn't do it. I don't really take part in the hype and mass trading (not to say I haven't done a few trades over the years) but if that's what Zack and Mehtab want to do then that's up to them. My relationship is certainly stronger with Mehtab, I don't really have a lot to do with Zack, and at the end of the day the guy's buying rare guitars, normally because he likes them, then *tries* to sell them on for a profit. His crazy advertised prices make for some amusing conversation on the page (check out the 'talking about this' number, that's what it's all about with social media) but I don't know that anybody here has ever actually found out what his guitars have sold for.

Frankly, my view toward Mehtab is that he's just selling very rare guitars, very niche usually, and quite frequently, we're not talking about human trafficking or drug smuggling here, and the only people that ever engage him in his sales are the people who have that kind of money spare - usually adults and with a large chuck of spare cash.

Anyway, I don't know why I'm justifying myself to the Internet. If anybody cares that I'm part of the guitar porn Facebook then there you go, I am.

EDIT: My 'rep' doesn't bother me, but I have to say anonymously negging me with insults doesn't really help anything, a post in the thread might have been a little more reasonable - not 'complaining about rep', just saying talking to me might have been more constructive...

EDIT EDIT: Yep, staying anonymous, ok.

 

[Lorcan Ward]

Just chiming in my build won't be at NAMM.

@Narad @ Thrsher if your guitars are nearly done and you don't mind it being at a show played by a lot of people send Vik message asking if he wants to use it at NAMM. That way Alain or you(if you're going) could pick it up at the end. At Messe the 6 & 8 string had been played until the strings were rock solid but the guitars and fretwork were perfect. IMO its worth it if you want your guitars finished and would also save VIK having to ship guitars back to Belaurs.

@Rook Thats really weird you weren't able to choose those specs when he has several fanned builds with very expensive tops in the works. I haven't talked to him about specs but since i'm moving out and pushing my own business soon I won't be looking for more guitars anytime soon.

We all knew Mehtab would sell his Vik straight away. I'm trying to convince him to keep it but if your not a really serious player than it would be hard to justify keeping it. Especially when you can flip it for nearly a 50% profit.

I'm very interested in what VIK Guitar USA is about. My guess is he's been looking at what Ola Strandberg is doing with Washburn and that might explain what the in-stock QM Duality was for. I'm not sure branching out is the best idea when he has a lot of orders and it takes some serious business skills to set up a partnership like this.

Vik has been very busy the last year and a half with being in hospital, recovering, moving workshop etc. Building in-stocks and Messe builds when he has such a backlog of orders is something he really shouldn't be doing. As a guitar luthier your reputation is about as thin as ice. Make a few bad moves and you will pay for it. Look at Strictly 7, Invictus etc. They went from popular and in demand to avoid at all costs because of some poor easily avoidable decisions. Neglecting your customers is the biggest mistake in business you can make and one you will really pay for in the long-run.

 

[technomancer]

I assume you mean me?

There's nothing shady about guitar porn, we each contribute to it in our own way, it fun a vehicle for communication. We don't all sit around a big wooden table with our fingers splayed against one another discussing what evil things we're gunna do next in deep voices.

Nothing shady? So posting people's photos without permission to promote what is basically a set up to flip guitars then refusing to take them down when asked with a justification that once a photo is posted publicly it's public domain isn't shady?

 

[Rook]

^Not something I have anything to do with. Like I say, we don't sit around a big table talking about this stuff. People send us literally hundreds of their own personal guitar photos every day asking us to post them, which I do, and people enjoy seeing their stuff thrown out into a widely viewed public domain and the conversation that follows.

We've also attracted a huge amount of attention to people like Ola Strandberg, as well as our own Francesco and the like who I feel deserve it and I like to think they've benefitted from that. I don't wish to take credit in any way for their success, but if we're helping that that could only be positive.

I don't know anything about these images used without permission, I assume you're referring a specific incident, if I were to post something and the owner of the image came forth and wanted it removed I'd take it down, it's no skin off my nose. You have to remember that Facebook page, while some use it as a hub for second hand gear sales, is a huge forum for sharing gear (in pictures) and talking about it, it's not like I make money out of it.

Like I say, this isn't like google spying on you, Monsanto claiming your crops as theirs or Cadbury's killing all those children with poison chocolate... And not to be facetious, but your shady example appears to be the posting of an inanimate object - presumably a guitar - on a Facebook page that people probably liked and commented on. I honestly don't know anything about it.

I'm a conversation junkie, all I ever want to do is talk about gear. Guitars, amps, pickups, tone, more recently camera stuff, and the majority of the other moderators (we're in double figures) are the same.

 

[technomancer]

^Not something I have anything to do with. Like I say, we don't sit around a big table talking about this stuff. People send us literally hundreds of their own personal guitar photos every day asking us to post them, which I do, and people enjoy seeing their stuff thrown out into a widely viewed public domain and the conversation that follows.

We've also attracted a huge amount of attention to people like Ola Strandberg, as well as our own Francesco and the like who I feel deserve it and I like to think they've benefitted from that. I don't wish to take credit in any way for their success, but if we're helping that that could only be positive.

I don't know anything about these images used without permission, I assume you're referring a specific incident, if I were to post something and the owner of the image came forth and wanted it removed I'd take it down, it's no skin off my nose. You have to remember that Facebook page, while some use it as a hub for second hand gear sales, is a huge forum for sharing gear (in pictures) and talking about it, it's not like I make money out of it.

Like I say, this isn't like google spying on you, Monsanto claiming your crops as theirs or Cadbury's killing all those children with poison chocolate... And not to be facetious, but your shady example appears to be the posting of an inanimate object - presumably a guitar - on a Facebook page that people probably liked and commented on. I honestly don't know anything about it.

I'm a conversation junkie, all I ever want to do is talk about gear. Guitars, amps, pickups, tone, more recently camera stuff, and the majority of the other moderators (we're in double figures) are the same.

Thanks for trying to make it sound like I'm a conspiracy nut when I tell you one of your non-shady fellow admins was a complete dick to somebody that made a reasonable request with regards to copyrighted content. They weren't my photos, but it really was a ridiculous (and legally incorrect) response to a reasonable request from somebody who saw their pics were being used somewhere they didn't want them to be

 

[Rook]

That wasn't my intention, you'll have to excuse the way I talk.

Honestly, I don't know anything about that particular incident. I just didn't particularly like being blanket accused of shadiness or dishonesty or something because of the reputation a few of my peers seem to have acquired over the last few months or years or however long.

If yourself or others have any questions, queries or complaints about my practices or associations in a public sense I just want to clarify these are things I never want to appear to be shying away from. Like I said earlier on when my association with GP was first hinted at, if I felt like I was doing something I wanted to hide I just wouldn't do it.

I again apologise if I appeared to tar anyone with an unfavourable brush, not my intention.

Except my Vik rant, in that case it was clearly my intention haha.

 

[technomancer]

It's all good... and at the Vik rant

 

[ramses]

I'm just hoping that things like these won't happen to customers of the two luthiers whose queue I'm in.

People should be honest and use this forum to talk about these problems, so that fellow guitarists won't suffer the same. From what I have seen, the pattern is that usually one or two people let others know about the issues, and a bunch of non-customers calling them liars, sadly. Also some customers trying to defend their "investment" by contradicting the ones that bring out the problems.

The latter case should not be, because bad business practices from a luthier does not devalue the guitars — in my experience —, assuming that the guitars are indeed of high quality. One example of this are BRJ guitars: they sell for >$3000.00 after the debacle, and after reports of bad QA in the latter years of the company.

 

[themike]

I wonder how long the Robbins Guitars wait list is....

 

[Xaios]

I assume you mean me?

There's nothing shady about guitar porn, we each contribute to it in our own way, it fun a vehicle for communication. We don't all sit around a big wooden table with our fingers splayed against one another discussing what evil things we're gunna do next in deep voices.

Yes, I did. My apologies though, re-reading my earlier post, I made it sound way more sinister than I intended to. I didn't mention you by name specifically because, what with the tone this thread had taken on, I didn't want to make it seem like I was trying to persecute you.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

Internet = Serious Business

Vik is an asshole, always was, (he was banned on here a few times for getting testy with members, especially after he shipped a guitar poorly which broke) as well as opting for the "hire a shill" form of marketing that just sits so well with a tight community. His recent, rather hypocritical, explosion over guitar shapes and recent auction-while-ignoring-customers business style is even more of an insight into the quality of his personality. That said, he isn't Hitler, nor is he a hack luthier. Just a common, everyday asshole. I'm kind of an asshole too, so I know it when I see it.

Zach and Mehtab? They're kind of douches. It's okay, it kind of comes with the territory (unfortunately) when you have the kind of disposable income they have and the veil of the internet. Once again, I'm not saying they're guilty of raping-12-year-old-cancer-victim-type offenses, that's just silly, but they are at it for hype and personal gain. I actually kind of miss having Mehtab around here sometimes, at least the old Mehtab who would troll a little, crack jokes, and overall be a fun guy to have a round, not the uber-shill he's become more recently. I don't miss Zach though, WAAAAAAAAAYYY too much drama and baggage for a guy who did little more that sell stuff on here and take great pictures of awesome guitars. No member is worth the hassle. A lot of the uber-flippers (and they sure as heck know who they are ) bring that kind of drama, I have an entire inbox full of BS to prove it. Maybe if I was getting paid to mediate this place I'd be okay with it, but I hate being the forum version of the Paypal help desk.

Hey Leonardo7, good job keeping your cool this time. I was almost ready to bet on you going on a neg-spree again. I'm not being sarcastic, it's good to see folks calm down a little on the Internet and not take everything so incredibly personally. Vik has obviously done right by you, and that's the kind of thing that should be extended to all customers, even the most difficult and ornery ones.