Vik Guitars Discussion

[loqtrall]

Hm, I'm still baffled about the shitstorm that happened with Leonardo7 and how it was just forgotten that everybody insulted him for posting pictures of beautiful guitars.
Like it or not, Vik might be an arrogant asshole, but his guitars are still beautiful and damn well made. Just because his personality is ugly and his views and business ethics are fvcked up doesn't degrade the quality of work he provides in his instruments. It also doesn't give anyone the right to insult a person who still believes Vik makes great guitars. Sometimes this forum just lowers my hope for humanity.

EDIT: Also, how does having a guitar on order from Vik instantaneously make you a 'shill' if you post in the "Vik Guitars Discussion" thread that you still admire his work and are eagerly awaiting your guitar? So "He doesn't support gays, that means you're not allowed to appreciate his instruments and that also means you have to hate your guitar when it arrives". I mean, what the hell, people?

 

[Overtone]

Hm, I'm still baffled about the shitstorm that happened with Leonardo7 and how it was just forgotten that everybody insulted him for posting pictures of beautiful guitars.
Like it or not, Vik might be an arrogant asshole, but his guitars are still beautiful and damn well made. Just because his personality is ugly and his views and business ethics are fvcked up doesn't degrade the quality of work he provides in his instruments. It also doesn't give anyone the right to insult a person who still believes Vik makes great guitars. Sometimes this forum just lowers my hope for humanity.

EDIT: Also, how does having a guitar on order from Vik instantaneously make you a 'shill' if you post in the "Vik Guitars Discussion" thread that you still admire his work and are eagerly awaiting your guitar? So "He doesn't support gays, that means you're not allowed to appreciate his instruments and that also means you have to hate your guitar when it arrives". I mean, what the hell, people?

Just because his guitars are beautiful, it doesnt improve the quality of his character.

 

[Thorerges]

I'm a little surprised his webpage is getting more likes.

 

[oracles]

I'm a little surprised his webpage is getting more likes.

Anyone can buy likes mate.

 

[loqtrall]

Just because his guitars are beautiful, it doesnt improve the quality of his character.

I clearly stated that in my reply. What I'm saying is, the guy IS an asshole, it's been proven. He's a GIANT asshole. But if he makes great and beautiful guitars, why chastise someone for admiring them? I mean, the wasn't admiring Vik's personality just his work, which is still great despite him being a complete dick.

 

[Overtone]

I clearly stated that in my reply. What I'm saying is, the guy IS an asshole, it's been proven. He's a GIANT asshole. But if he makes great and beautiful guitars, why chastise someone for admiring them? I mean, the wasn't admiring Vik's personality just his work, which is still great despite him being a complete dick.

I agree, and I did not judge anyone for what they said... Takes some balls. But does anyone dispute that the guitars are aesthetically incredible? Its not really the issue, so it seems like a weird time to praise his work. Still, I dont know enough about any customer to come to a conclusion from the little they said, and dont care a lot.

 

[InfinityCollision]

Hm, I'm still baffled about the shitstorm that happened with Leonardo7 and how it was just forgotten that everybody insulted him for posting pictures of beautiful guitars.

It had very little to do with the pictures and everything to do with the rest of the post and his prior conduct.

 

[loqtrall]

It had very little to do with the pictures and everything to do with the rest of the post and his prior conduct.

The rest of the post? What rest of the post? He basically said "Would it be a crime to share actual GUITAR updates in the Vik GUITARS Discussion thread?" And the rest of the post was talking about the pictured guitars. That was literally the whole post. Just because he has a Vik on order doesn't mean people should ridicule and insult him. He probably has guitars from other builders on order, too.

People took him posting pictures of Vik's guitars and combined it with the fact that he has a Vik on order and blew it WAY WAY WAY WAY out of proportions. Seriously, insulting and neg repping someone for having a different view from yours is immature, but insulting and neg repping someone for posting pictures of beautifully crafted guitars built by someone you don't like is just childish.

EDIT: I'd understand if it was the "Vik's Personality & Views Discussion" thread, but it's not, and that's all that's been discussed for the last 20 pages.

 

[Alberto7]

I just don't know how anyone can disassociate the two to the extent of not psychologically relating ViK Guitars with Vik himself. It's like criticizing a holy book without criticizing its respective religion. The guitars are beautiful, yes, but I could not promote in any way any product related to such a morally vacant human being. I will not ever be able to erase from my mind what Vik Kuletski has done and said whenever the ViK Guitars brand is brought up. The sight of a ViK guitar, while beautiful, still conjures some very negative feelings that I can't ignore. I like to believe I'm a relatively normal person, but - and this assumption is perhaps where I may go wrong with my point of view, forcing me to reevaluate my stance - I'm pretty sure that most normal people function similarly. If that doesn't happen to Leonardo7 (who I assume is also a normally functioning and perfectly capable person), given by his constant promotion of his products, then that just implies to me that he agrees with Vik's crooked "opinion." Thus, I feel a need to disagree with his promotion of the brand. It's not only that though, it's also his total disregard for what has been going on with it and his vague answers to questions that put him on the spot.

I hope that made sense.

 

[Hollowway]

I clearly stated that in my reply. What I'm saying is, the guy IS an asshole, it's been proven. He's a GIANT asshole. But if he makes great and beautiful guitars, why chastise someone for admiring them? I mean, the wasn't admiring Vik's personality just his work, which is still great despite him being a complete dick.

Yeah, I don't think in Leonardo7's case people were on him specifically about that post. There have been a number of other incidents where he has been very supportive of Vik despite other things Vik has done (like unilaterally cancel customer orders, flaws in guitars, etc.). I think people feel that Alain is overly supportive of Vik, and they are reacting to his post by looking at the situation as a whole.

And, of course, there are a number of people that would have a hard time supporting someone who makes beautiful guitars if they do something that is considered reprehensible. It's the same reason "socially conscious" mutual funds exist - a given fund may have great returns, but if someone has an a priori problem with supporting a tobacco company, they won't be able to support the fund.

 

[Hollowway]

Vik himself has stated that he has nothing against gays, simply does not agree with their choices ...

OK, at this point I'm pretty much but you should also check out the post in the other Vik Drama thread, which is a FB conversation between Nolly and Vik. Vik flat out says in there he doesn't like gays. I mean, rest of your point is taken, but he does in fact say he has something against them.

 

[capoeiraesp]

That word 'choices'...

 

[loqtrall]

So what you're saying is, you think it's wrong for someone to completely not give a shit about what Vik thinks, and simply like the way he builds instruments? Or, that it should be impossible for a "normal person" to not give a shit what someone thinks about a certain subject?

Does it really shock you people that there are some people out there who simply could give two shits about someone's opinions? Because, since this has been going on, most of the people harassing and talking down to Vik completely disregard and ignore anyone who has any opinion on the matter that contradicts their own. It shouldn't be a new concept for most of you.

Is it hard to grasp that Leonardo is just really stoked to receive an awesome instrument and doesn't care if the dude building it is an asshole? Or does that make him some subhuman waste-like asshole?

I think people feel that Alain is overly supportive of Vik, and they are reacting to his post by looking at the situation as a whole.

Also, this ^

"People feel that Alain is overly supportive of Vik."

I'm sure he's not overly supportive of Vik as a person, unless there's something I'm not seeing and they're best buds in real life and hang out all the time. He seems to be overly supportive of his abilities when it comes to crafting guitars. Not once in his posts has he said "Yeah, I totally support Vik's decisions to put his own foot in his mouth, and I hate gays just like he does."

All he said was "Hey, I know this guy's being a dick, and I don't want to get involved in that; but his guitars are quite astonishing." What's wrong with that? What's wrong with having your OWN opinion? Is it wrong because it's not EVERYONE ELSE'S opinion? No. Being an individual is not a crime.

Because I seriously find it hard to grasp that you all can't accept the fact that some guy who just found out about Vik Guitars learned that he's a homophobe and says "Eh, whatever, I just want him to build me a guitar" without you all thinking he's a "shill" and that he supports homophobia and anti-gay propaganda. I mean, come on. This whole thing started on people disagreeing with someone's OPINION. O P I N I O N. Mind you, the opinion of a person probably mostly all of you don't even know in person or have never even talked to personally. I mean, it can effect you, you can be offended, that's fine. But this is turning into a ....ing witchhunt. Burn the witch and everyone associated with them = Burn the luthier and everyone associated with them.

 

[technomancer]

I actually updated the public ban list for this one, and I'll post it here as well since this guy was pretty much banned in the middle of a multi-post rant. Bitching about rep will ALWAYS get you banned.

As for Leonardo7, I think his posts speak for themselves, so feel free to reread the thread but please let's not spend 15 pages debating what this guy posted

 

[Explorer]

I think we're going too personally, do not you?

I'm not sure I understand your thinking, or your lack of reflection and understanding of what you're defending.

You're okay with someone going after my family members and friends, which is personal.

is the first time that comapre me to a fascist!

sigh

Ah... are you thinking that I'm calling you a fascist?

No,

Given how your defense of Vik can be easily applied to defending Mussolini, I thought you were ignorant of Italian history. I didn't think you were actively embracing that kind of thinking, and wanted to bring your attention to the relevant ideas so you could learn from it, and to move away from it.

However, it now appears that you *are* aware of such history, as well as how such mass movements can strip people of rights, designating them as less than human.

And even with that knowledge, you're attacking those who are *not* okay with that type of action.

You're attacking those opposed to actions like those of the fascists.

So, if you don't want to be the kind of person who attacks the kind of people fighting those mass movements, don't attack them.

Similarly if you want to be the kind of person who opposes those mass movements like fascism, then oppose them, don't defend them.

Only your own actions show if your the kind of person who opposes treating people as less than people, or who defends that very thing.

Only your own actions, not my words.

Be who you want to be. Be who you would be proud to be.

 

[flint757]

... unless there's something I'm not seeing ...

This here be your problem. Read the thread and you'll get a better picture. The way he posts about VIK guitars it would seem to come across that he is more involved than your average joe.

Just out of curiosity, are you actually working for Vik? Be it cash or discounted instruments? Because I really don't want people/myself to tear into your statements if you're trying to simply help Eric but at this point in the game it basically sounds like you're working with Vik and relaying his side of the argument and if so, you're gonna have a bad time. After the BRJ fiasco, everyone is on red alert...

But after the update everything is still heresay about the guitar. It is "I heard Vik talk about a guitar, assuming its yours". How about Vik reach out to him directly with the email that obviously works? How about someone PMd him on here, you know, the messageboard he posts on almost every day? I bet Vik would have if Eric still owed him money. I mean the guy found out about his guitar being completed by seeing photos of it on public display at a sales event...

This is true. Hey Brandon, Vik says your guitar is done. And for everyone wondering, the production stuff is being being made by a diferent company than I was previously told. People will be very pleased. Vik has just made arrangements w a factory who is 100% down to build these guitars. I am very excited. VIk is coming back to California in March to finalize and check out an actual proto I believe. This company will eventually be capable of taking on more options for production which is better for everyone. His booth has been off the hook. Ive been seeing person after person dropping by with big enthusiastic smiles as they play these guitars. People seem to be thrilled with his work here at NAMM. Every 5 mins it seems like some dude drops by talking about how he follows ViK Guitars on facebook etc. Its been really positive for the up and coming production stuff. And Vik does hope to have more than a few customs being shipped real soon he said. It looks like some of the Nolly run guitars are maybe shipping in a couple of months as well, according to plan.

I may or may not be mistaken, but many people in this thread don't seem to give a crap about the production guitars, at least not until ViK can get his ducks in line with regard to his PRIMARY source of business.

People want the guitars they spent thousands of dollars on delivered without transparent excuses and/or bullshit. It's also fairly clear that you're not an objective source of information or data, but rather come off as an apologist who is rationalizing really shitty business decisions.

ViK may be "big on the Internet," but that sort of thing has a way of backfiring very quickly when business practices like these run rampant.

I dont like to go on here and try to make a guy look bad unless he has personally screwed me over such as Sherman or S7G did. So don't expect me to say "wow man thats totally messed up". Its not my style. People can read the thread and assess the situation any way they wish, but it needs to be a fair assessement. If you pay attention, yes there are about 3-4 frustrated customers who are being vocal so to speak on here, but there are also about 50+ other customers who are being patient, myself included. I waited over 2 years for my Saviour 8FF and I still dont have it. I got my BRJ Black Friday guitar and while I totally think its supremely messed up how BRJ handled things, I dont think that he had evil intentions of screwing everyone. I believe that BRJ honestly tried his best while being overtaken with a mental illness/Cocaine addiction, whatever!

Vik is a friend of mine now. We met at NAMM, we all had dinner together. I consider him more than a guy who makes guitars for me, I consider him to be a friend. I don't work for him for cash and I certainly don't get discounts. I actually get artist pricing with Mayones at the moment and the same with EMG. I have an 8 string EMG demo coming in a couple months in the EMG TV studio doing an 8 string comparison vid for EMG and Im going to be using a Mayones Regius 8. In all honesty though, I really like my Vik guitars and my Vik pickups. They have a certain resonation and tone I just dont get with anything else.




Good! Yeah he actually took out his phone twice, once on Thursday and once on Friday and dialed your number and got confused with no response or something. I was right there with him when he dialed. He also said that you dont have a facebook account, or that if you do he cant find you, and that he absolutely has no way to reach you. Also, his phone battery has been dying half way through the hectic days at NAMM. I saw his battery meter on empty when he was trying to take pics of guys playing his guitars.

Sorry for the shitty blurry pic, but I captured one cell phone pic of a classic scene at the booth. It was like this on and off all day every day. Your first year at NAMM you only get a 10x10 booth in the lower level basement level. There is no way he had room for ten guitars

Sorry, but that's BS.

First of all, it's silly to divide Vik's customers into "vocal" and "patient". I've been patient for years and so have been the rest. I emailed Vik every 4-6 months, asking for update, and probably half my emails never received a reply. The other half received some kind of an explanation to which I said OK. The last explanation I have received, however, I did not accept. I didn't get any real deadlines and I was told that sponsorship guitars and his own personal projects (intended to make him a better luthier) all have priority over my custom order guitars, that had a September 2012 ETA. I suggested a balanced approach of two days per week spent on custom order list - instead of zero days per week - and the rest of the week for his personal projects, to which I received no reply. Even two days per week was too much.

You have no idea how patient I have been and how patient I still am. If it wasn't for his family I would have done some pretty tough actions already and there is a good chance he wouldn't have been at NAMM at the moment. Since you are not related to Vik I will ignore this, but the moment Vik tells me that I am not patient, the real party starts.

Secondly, this 5 to 50 ratio, I'm not sure where did you get that. Not everyone is member of this forum, some of his customers can't even speak English. I personally know of other people that are in same position and they share my opinion, but they just don't want to come out. Fortunately I can afford to lose all the money I paid for the guitar. I'm not a professional musician and I'm financially secure. But many of the customers are not as lucky and they literally paid all their savings to get their dream instrument. Not to mention that they also don't have dinners with Vik and they are kept completely in the dark, afraid of sending him even an email. You are damn right they are not "vocal". I am vocal because I can afford to lose everything I paid or else I'd have kept my mouth shut and pray that maybe in 2018 a miracle happens. I hope that these 4-5 vocal customers will help the remaining customers get their guitars sooner than that as well.

So to summarize. A "patient" customer becomes "vocal" after he had been disrespected one time too many and when publicly expressing dissatisfaction with the service starts looking like the only way of communicating with the luthier. The level of frustration must also grow high enough so that you don't care if the luthier hates you for that, maybe even to the extent when he will never deliver your guitars. A good example is Sherman / angus case that I read in another thread, which to me looks like luthier was not delivering the guitar only because he didn't like the customer.

With that said I don't have problems with your updates. The more information, the better. I personally believe everything you said, but I do have my own interpretations and I do believe that some of your opinions are wrong. You are very close to Vik and that might cloud your judgement occasionally.


Let's be realistic - 95% of the facebook fans drooling over his guitars and cheering for him no matter what he does, don't have money even for initial deposit. 99% of them will not decide to buy guitar from him even if they did have approximately enough money, especially at his current prices. So yes, he will always win online popularity contests but those won't pay the bills.

There are 50+ other customers who have waited years longer than their promised delivery dates? That's even worse! If not, then their situation is not exactly comparable to the several vocal guys on here, is it?

I would also be less frustrated if I had gone from 0 to 3 Viks all within the timespan of other customers' orders. It's not really patience in the same way, is it?

Anyhow, we need something like Angie's List for guitar luthiers I think. That way people will know better who they can and can't trust with their large sums of money At the very least a consolidated rating website would help guide people along.

 

[Hollowway]

What's wrong with having your OWN opinion? Is it wrong because it's not EVERYONE ELSE'S opinion? No. Being an individual is not a crime.

Because I seriously find it hard to grasp that you all can't accept the fact that some guy who just found out about Vik Guitars learned that he's a homophobe and says "Eh, whatever, I just want him to build me a guitar" without you all thinking he's a "shill" and that he supports homophobia and anti-gay propaganda.

Nothing is wrong with having your own opinion. But you seem to have a huge problem with people on here having their own opinion. Having an opinion is normal. Arguing with someone who holds a different opinion is normal. You don't seem to understand why people would want to argue about differing opinions, and yet you...argue about having a different opinion. Alain is perfectly able to make his own arguments, and he is/has. And those that disagree with him do the same. That's pretty much the way disagreements work. I'm not sure what you don't get about that.

And there's no witch hunt. To my knowledge, Alain has not been harmed as a result holding the opinion that Vik makes good guitars and that his opinion has not been swayed by the recent dust ups.

 

[Gango79]

I'm not sure I understand your thinking, or your lack of reflection and understanding of what you're defending.

You're okay with someone going after my family members and friends, which is personal.




Ah... are you thinking that I'm calling you a fascist?

No,

Given how your defense of Vik can be easily applied to defending Mussolini, I thought you were ignorant of Italian history. I didn't think you were actively embracing that kind of thinking, and wanted to bring your attention to the relevant ideas so you could learn from it, and to move away from it.

However, it now appears that you *are* aware of such history, as well as how such mass movements can strip people of rights, designating them as less than human.

And even with that knowledge, you're attacking those who are *not* okay with that type of action.

You're attacking those opposed to actions like those of the fascists.

So, if you don't want to be the kind of person who attacks the kind of people fighting those mass movements, don't attack them.

Similarly if you want to be the kind of person who opposes those mass movements like fascism, then oppose them, don't defend them.

Only your own actions show if your the kind of person who opposes treating people as less than people, or who defends that very thing.

Only your own actions, not my words.

Be who you want to be. Be who you would be proud to be.

Dear friend, i'm sorry for that but you must have quite a big problem if you feel offended and feel offended your family because of my words. I do not think I have said anything that offends the Race and the intelligence of anyone! Rather you're entering topics that you should have the decency not to talk! Evidently the word Mussolini still identifies Italians in the eyes of the "liberal" minds as yours.
My words had the purpose to tone down the speech but obviously they were understood in wrong way. Anyway I apologize first because I'm an "ignorant" Italian and second because i'm a vik customer!

 

[Gango79]

Anyway, i hope we can continue talking about Guitar! Is much better

 

[Wings of Obsidian]

Anyway, i hope we can continue talking about Guitar! Is much better

Come on, "non-fascist".......you jumped in the fire. Now accept your choices because people are going to tear your poorly reflected statements apart. And at this point, I'm pretty sure that not many of us on here are interested in "the guitars" anymore.