Valley of the Dolls III.
Game of Thrones
- Thread starter flexkill
- Start date
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Valley of the Dolls III.
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thesnowdog
Well-Known Member
Emperor Guillotine
The Almighty Ruler
As someone who works in TV production, I honestly don't even think that there was a pitchdeck presented by D&D to HBO execs about this final season...because, man...execs at HBO seem to be defending the abhorrent final season of their biggest show/content (now their biggest flop) tooth and nail.
But it seems like Casey Bloys (President of Programming at HBO) is finally coming around. His last line in this statement kind of confirms what D&D were obviously doing.
But it seems like Casey Bloys (President of Programming at HBO) is finally coming around. His last line in this statement kind of confirms what D&D were obviously doing.
Lorcan Ward
7slinger
The way the Night King story ended has turned a lot of people off a prequel show. I can't imagine it would do that well.
This is hilarious! You will need to pause to read it though cause its a bit fast.
This is hilarious! You will need to pause to read it though cause its a bit fast.
wankerness
Well-Known Member
How does that confirm anything? I see absolutely no hint in that comment that he hated the last season and thinks it was rushed. I'm sure he doesn't think it was considering the extra time allotted to it. I would assume a more likely elaboration would be "to live up to the high standard of this season and every season!!"
narad
Progressive metal and politics
"We don't want to put out bad TV"
"SEE!! EVERYONE HATES SEASON 8!!"
I mean, you see what you want to see.
I feel like people need to realize when they're in the niche. Like when on SSO there's some sort of semi-consensus of what options should be on guitars, and companies still put out black super strats with EMGs and floyds, and everyone is all, "WHY DONT THEY LISTEN!?". They do listen. To the actual market. Of which we represent a teensy piece.
Maybe many people were in some ways disappointed by season 8, but this cadre of aggressive youtubers and redditors is a tiny fraction. The petition to remake season 8 seems especially oblivious to this.
The GoT situation is always quite unique in that I don't remember previous shows getting so personal at the creators. Maybe you don't like how Dexter ended (it was terrible) but I don't know the names of the people behind those decisions, because people were generally willing to accept ... I don't know... their place? As an audience? And not people personally wronged by the creators of the show.
The way the GoT commentary goes, it doesn't sound so much like GoT ended badly, but that there is a GoT ending that exists out there that is brilliant and ties everything together perfectly and makes everyone happy, and these two fucktards didn't give it to us. It's a weird bit of psychology. I'm not sure why it's now and not previously, if it can all be chalked up to social media circlejerks or just how much the internet has become a medium for anger-based content.
Emperor Guillotine
The Almighty Ruler
See, the thing is that the petition isn't meant to be taken literally. The signers know that HBO isn't going to dump the money into hiring another production company (or re-hiring Bighead, Littlehead) in order to remake an entire new series. The petition is just a statement showcasing how many people are frustrated.
Factor in the mass number of unsubscriptions from HBO (at least a million), and it ought to show the fallout from this. Yes, you're right in saying that the people doing this are perhaps a "tiny fraction" of the overall market; however, I'm seeing far, far, FAR more disappointment and general negativity expressed all over the internet (and even in the mainstream mass media who isn't sucking off Hollywood this time) to the point that it seems like the predominant opinion is that the final season is total shit. The final season of GOT is being heralded as one of the biggest TV disappointments of all time in the mainstream media.
Dexter was never as big as GOT. That's the thing.
The original ASOIAF books are a 23+ year legacy by GRRM that have been read and loved by multiple generations. GOT was the biggest show on television for a solid run of years, and the series broke new ground (in terms of storytelling and technical achievement) a handful of times. Dexter never did any of that. It was just a trending series for a few years.
Ok, now from this statement I can confirm that you haven't been reading into the backlash.
The issue that fans have doesn't revolve around the ending. Sure, the ending that we got sucked in the opinions of many, but the issue is that this was rushed, miserable, piss-poor storytelling. Innumerable holes all over every episode, the outright denial of basic logic, the outright denial of natural forces, so much skipped or left out due to pure laziness and incompetence, characters not acting like themselves that we have seen over nearly ten years, characters turning on a dime because the writers didn't know what else to do (meaning that there was no gradual buildup - character changes "just happened" for the sake of convenience to further the plot), random events "just happening" for the sake of convenience to further the plot, time jumps and teleporting galore, no emotionally satisfying ending, etc.
Fans would've accepted the final ending of the series (regardless of whatever ending that might've been) if it had been correctly built up and presented properly, meaning if the story was told properly and competently in a way that made it believable and made sense. That way, there could at least maybe be some logic, some sense, and some emotional satisfaction. Again, this was just utterly piss-poor storytelling.
Storytelling is a cornerstone of human society. It's honestly not that hard to do. But when your profession is to be a paid storyteller and you fuck it up this badly?...especially with a series that was once the biggest show on TV that so many people loved?...yeah, it's no wonder that there is such extreme negative backlash.
wankerness
Well-Known Member
There's a whole ton of entitlement and rage going on here, but to address one specific point:
"It's being heralded as one of the biggest disappointments of all time in the mainstream media!!!"
If you haven't noticed, angry content gets clicks and the content follows what makes the money. Yes, a lot of people on the internet are mad. Yes, they're the same ones that are going to click on an article and leave comments continuing to bitch about it. Yes, that's how the sites make their money. No, the millions of people that had opinions from the range of "were disappointed and got on with their lives" through "loved it" are not going to fuel the same attention. This is a self-perpetuating machine, too, because then the sites get to write follow-up articles ABOUT the comments, fueling more comments, etcetcetc. And then when that dies down, they'll get to write "ACTUALLY, it was good, and the reaction was overblown!" articles and start a whole new self-perpetuating article/comment cycle again! Woo! It's TLJ all over again! Down to people misreading interview quotes in ludicrous ways to try and do "gotcha" moments, like your bizarre quote from the HBO dude that you say shows that he thought it was awful. Or when people post Emilia Clarke saying "best finale ever??" in a joking way that was VERY OBVIOUSLY her just playing that she thought Daenerys should have been the winner, cause that was her character!! Kinda like when they'd play that Mark Hamill quote about not liking the direction Luke was going in the script (while carefully removing all context and pausing it before the next sentence).
You are constantly speaking in these sweeping generalizations with careful wording to imply EVERYONE that's a fan feels the same way as you do. Surprise, the vast majority of everyone doesn't care anymore, and a lot of people even thought it was fine. The AV Club, one of the whiniest sites on the internet (as well as possibly the biggest name-recognition site when it comes to TV reviews), even gave pretty positive reviews to the finale from both of their reviewers.
It just all seems so exhausting to be this mad. Jeez. If/when the books ever come out and GRR Martin ends it just as badly, then I'll be curious to see what the "fan" reaction is. Will they try to crucify him, too? Maybe (if they haven't died of old age by then, anyway). Will there be tons of articles everywhere about how bad the book is? I'm guessing probably not, cause the percentage of people that watch the show that actually read/care about the books is not very big. Yet, almost everyone furious about this season seems to have very strong opinions about them. Curious, that.
"It's being heralded as one of the biggest disappointments of all time in the mainstream media!!!"
If you haven't noticed, angry content gets clicks and the content follows what makes the money. Yes, a lot of people on the internet are mad. Yes, they're the same ones that are going to click on an article and leave comments continuing to bitch about it. Yes, that's how the sites make their money. No, the millions of people that had opinions from the range of "were disappointed and got on with their lives" through "loved it" are not going to fuel the same attention. This is a self-perpetuating machine, too, because then the sites get to write follow-up articles ABOUT the comments, fueling more comments, etcetcetc. And then when that dies down, they'll get to write "ACTUALLY, it was good, and the reaction was overblown!" articles and start a whole new self-perpetuating article/comment cycle again! Woo! It's TLJ all over again! Down to people misreading interview quotes in ludicrous ways to try and do "gotcha" moments, like your bizarre quote from the HBO dude that you say shows that he thought it was awful. Or when people post Emilia Clarke saying "best finale ever??" in a joking way that was VERY OBVIOUSLY her just playing that she thought Daenerys should have been the winner, cause that was her character!! Kinda like when they'd play that Mark Hamill quote about not liking the direction Luke was going in the script (while carefully removing all context and pausing it before the next sentence).
You are constantly speaking in these sweeping generalizations with careful wording to imply EVERYONE that's a fan feels the same way as you do. Surprise, the vast majority of everyone doesn't care anymore, and a lot of people even thought it was fine. The AV Club, one of the whiniest sites on the internet (as well as possibly the biggest name-recognition site when it comes to TV reviews), even gave pretty positive reviews to the finale from both of their reviewers.
It just all seems so exhausting to be this mad. Jeez. If/when the books ever come out and GRR Martin ends it just as badly, then I'll be curious to see what the "fan" reaction is. Will they try to crucify him, too? Maybe (if they haven't died of old age by then, anyway). Will there be tons of articles everywhere about how bad the book is? I'm guessing probably not, cause the percentage of people that watch the show that actually read/care about the books is not very big. Yet, almost everyone furious about this season seems to have very strong opinions about them. Curious, that.
Emperor Guillotine
The Almighty Ruler
Agreed, but come on, The Last Jedi got the same negative backlash. Only difference is that The Last Jedi dealt with massive fallout from Star Wars fans. Game of Thrones is having a larger fallout because the show was cultivated and geared towards "normies" (for want of a better term). So we are seeing more disappointment all over, expressed in various ways.
You're absolutely right, wank. However, with that said, I work in TV and film production. The networks (even the big conglomerates), the production companies, people whom I've worked with or worked under (GOT fans and non-GOT fans) are all saying about how shitty the final season was. I've seen and heard so much of it outside of the internet from people who work in that specific field.
A lot of the mainstream media production companies and news sources even want to report that it was horrible because they see the merit (or lack of) in it, but they have to suck off Hollywood because "media agenda". I'm telling you this as someone who works in the industry with various production companies.
Nope. Nope. Nope. Let's read that quote again.
He never says that it was "awful". He just says that: "I think the last thing fans want is something that was rushed out just to make it to air." We can use context clues here or even subcontext to infer that he was admitting (amidst all of the fallout) that the final season of Game of Thrones was indeed "rushed out just to make it to air". Yes, HBO offered D&D more time and more episodes. But D&D wanted to rush it, and HBO just went along with it as the distributor who ordered the episodes and footed the bill. As the network, HBO should've known better and shouldn't have settled for such shitty quality in storytelling. Seems like at least someone over there has seen it.
No offense, my guy, but that absolutely isn't true, and you know it.
I've made no sweeping generalizations. I've just said that fans are pissed. Not "all fans". I've simply said that people who are fans can like the ending and the ultimate outcome and have a different opinion than me (in which case, I did not, personally, like the final season). No one is "right" nor "wrong" here because there is no "right" or "wrong".
Probably not because majority of Americans don't read.
As for the rest of the world in other countries, I cannot say.Also, GOT = 10 years, and ASOIAF = 23+ years, give or take with GRRM baiting fans and not fulfilling promises on release dates over and over and over again. I'm pretty certain that any negative backlash from ASOIAF would be even more severe just based on time investment (which, of course, varies from fan to fan and reader to reader).
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Yul Brynner
Custom title
I never watched a single episode.
wankerness
Well-Known Member
Probably. I guess it's just going to be a whimper instead of a bang based on how few people there are that will still care by then. If "then" ever happens. I hope it does, for the sake of all the fans! But I'm not optimistic that he's going to finish it before he dies given how much other stuff he has going on and how out of shape he looks.
Eh. This whole thing just makes me so tired and annoyed. I should stop posting about it. I didn't love it, but I can't really judge my reaction to it until I watch it again, and I don't think I'll do that until the blu-ray comes out in several months. I'll probably be underwhelmed all over again, though Battle of Winterfell I'm sure will be improved with actual good picture quality. I think 4, 5 and 6 improved slightly on rewatches cause I didn't have as much time to sit there and think on what had happened each week. But, I think last season was similar - I really liked it up until the "capture a zombie!" episode, which was as dumb as everyone says.
At the rate GRRM is going, it'll be 203X before ASoIaF gets an ending, and that's not being hyperbolic.
I thought The Last Jedi was dumb, I hated the ending of Dexter, and I thought How I Met Your Mother felt extremely rushed at the end, but GoT was passable. It was like a show that started out as a B+, brought it up to an A, but then went back down to a C+ on the final project and the exam. Seeing as how I started watching it at the beginning, I wasn't sure I was going to love it.
The HBO guy saying not to rush things and the implication that the final season was rushed doesn't work for me. Maybe I'm wrong, IDK, but it took 2 years to make 6 episodes- that's not rushed production. And I highly doubt that many people cared about a coffee cup or a couple of barely visible water bottles.
The way I see it is that the arguments about bad writing are either petty, misinformed, or hardly consequential. I mean, if the Star Wars writers had done the ending, Jon would have probably had a heart attack in the Privy and the Battle of Winterfell would have ended with Arya jumping to light speed and blowing up all of the White Walkers. If it had been the Dexter people, Jon would have unceremoniously killed Dany, had Drogon carry her body to the sea, then moved North to become a lumberjack... wait, ...?! LOL
I thought The Last Jedi was dumb, I hated the ending of Dexter, and I thought How I Met Your Mother felt extremely rushed at the end, but GoT was passable. It was like a show that started out as a B+, brought it up to an A, but then went back down to a C+ on the final project and the exam. Seeing as how I started watching it at the beginning, I wasn't sure I was going to love it.
The HBO guy saying not to rush things and the implication that the final season was rushed doesn't work for me. Maybe I'm wrong, IDK, but it took 2 years to make 6 episodes- that's not rushed production. And I highly doubt that many people cared about a coffee cup or a couple of barely visible water bottles.
The way I see it is that the arguments about bad writing are either petty, misinformed, or hardly consequential. I mean, if the Star Wars writers had done the ending, Jon would have probably had a heart attack in the Privy and the Battle of Winterfell would have ended with Arya jumping to light speed and blowing up all of the White Walkers. If it had been the Dexter people, Jon would have unceremoniously killed Dany, had Drogon carry her body to the sea, then moved North to become a lumberjack... wait, ...?! LOL
narad
Progressive metal and politics
Now we've even got conspiracy theories for how universally hated a Game of Thrones season was.
I thought season 8 was very, very bad. I thought the writing was remarkably bad and a lot (almost all) of the characters handled very poorly. I thought many things didn't make sense and I thought the ending was very unsatisfying emotionally.
I'm not angry and I haven't voiced this anywhere else on the internet, because I just don't care that much. I briefly talked about the finale with a few people irl, who also thought it sucked.
I hope that doesn't make me "entitled" or "toxic" or whatever. Seems like that tends to happen if you don't like something these days.
I'm not angry and I haven't voiced this anywhere else on the internet, because I just don't care that much. I briefly talked about the finale with a few people irl, who also thought it sucked.
I hope that doesn't make me "entitled" or "toxic" or whatever. Seems like that tends to happen if you don't like something these days.
Emperor Guillotine
The Almighty Ruler
Question: do you legitimately think before you type? Or do you just try to immediately negate anything anyone else says by typing like a douche?
Again, I work in TV and film production; and I'm talking about when people at a company approach me and say something along the lines of: "Yeah, we want to tell the world how shitty this season was, we thought it was shitty too. But, you know, we have to report what's given to us. End of story."
It's the dumbass culture that we live in nowadays, man. Everyone has to like everything; and if you don't, then you're essentially seen as shitting on someone's party. We all have to get along perfectly and avoid conflict or confrontation.
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wankerness
Well-Known Member
People don’t care if people don’t like a thing, it’s when things like mass screeching and fuckin PETITIONS TO CHANGE A THING exist that the backlash against the backlash happens. No one gave a shit when everyone hated say, Terminator Genisys or Batman v Superman. TLJ and GoT are on a different planet in terms of unreasonable reactions from a very loud minority ruining it for all the people that didn’t like it in a regular person way.
wankerness
Well-Known Member
I'd rewatch this season 10 times over Suicide Squad or Ghostbusters 2016 again, two other recent failures that got nowhere near the crying but were vastly worse
KnightBrolaire
SSO's unofficial pickup tester
It's pretty telling for me when both of my parents hated the last season, especially since they were both pretty casual fans. Both of them managed to pick up on the poor pacing, weird teleporting from the north to kings landing, the iron fleet ambush, and most of the other major quibbles that more hardcore fans had.
