Peavey Invective Megathread Misha Mansoor Signature Amp

[narad]

The invective doesn’t lack in the low end department I can tell you that much. I’d get the big amp. Life is too short to play 20 watts lol.

20 watts is like for religious people that need to inflict suffering upon themselves in order to find enlightenment or forgiveness.

 

[metaljohn]

paired up with a mesa oversized 4x12... get the big boy or the mh? does the invective have the same characteristics as the 5150? i like tight but i also like low end

Get the 120, unless it's completely out of your budget. I use mine with a Mesa OS 4x12 and it's *chef's kiss*

It's also quite easy to get a tight sound with good low end. I keep the bass around 10-11 o clock and the resonance around 1-2 o clock on channel 2 with the boost engaged for C#. Mileage may vary depending on your tuning.

 

[Blast Meat]

Bass at 12 and resonance at 2 o clock, post gain on 3 o clock and mv to taste

Note that if you try this amp, cranking mv and keeping post gain low removes bass a lot. The more post gain you add, the more bass and mids you get. I measured this and this has also been confirmed by Misha. And get used to keep either of both knobs to at least 14 o clock,using the other one for volume control. Otherwise you end up sounding like my grandmother with diarrhea.

 

[Deadpool_25]

paired up with a mesa oversized 4x12... get the big boy or the mh? does the invective have the same characteristics as the 5150? i like tight but i also like low end

Talking about the big boy:
The Invective’s crunch and lead channels are basically identical to the 5150/6505. The circuit is the same. There is a difference in presence that resides in the power section. According to John Fields difference not only makes the amp brighter in the high end, it also affects the resonance making it seem like there’s a bit less low end. However in a side by side test if you crank the bass and resonance to max on both the Invective and the 6505 the low end is the same. So if you want to use the Invective to replicate the tones of the 5150/6505 just dial in a bit more bass and resonance, and a bit less presence.

 

[Blast Meat]

@Deadpool_25 do you roughly know how these knobs were set? That's interesting because I actually end up having resonance at around 2 o clock and I cut a little bit of the high end fizz with the defizzerator in the fx loop, this way I like the sound the most...

 

[runbirdman]

I’m really curious about when the 120 is going to start being fulfilled. I’m 60 days into a preorder. I know the people who purchased the MH have waited much longer but it’d be nice to get a ballpark ETA and it doesn’t seem like anyone knows. I think Peavey had production issues even before COVID so I suspect it could be next year before I get mine.

 

[Deadpool_25]

@Deadpool_25 do you roughly know how these knobs were set? That's interesting because I actually end up having resonance at around 2 o clock and I cut a little bit of the high end fizz with the defizzerator in the fx loop, this way I like the sound the most...

How the knobs were set for what? When I did some side by side testing?

 

[Deadpool_25]

I’m really curious about when the 120 is going to start being fulfilled. I’m 60 days into a preorder. I know the people who purchased the MH have waited much longer but it’d be nice to get a ballpark ETA and it doesn’t seem like anyone knows. I think Peavey had production issues even before COVID so I suspect it could be next year before I get mine.

Interesting. I didn’t realize they’d gotten hard to find again.

 

[Blast Meat]

How the knobs were set for what? When I did some side by side testing?

Yes exactly, I mean the setting of presence and resonance that sounded like the 6505. Would be awesome to know

 

[MASS DEFECT]

Hey Invective owners. Anybody got a good EVH sound from the crunch channel? Like the blue channel on 50w EVH 5153? Something like a tight crunch, almost Marshall-y sound that is good for 80s hair metal.

I know the 6505+ can do that but I don't know if the Invective can. It sounds looser and has tons of gain even on the crunch channel on video demos.

 

[Blast Meat]

Well, I could record a riff in a looper and plug it into my Marshall JVM and Invective so you get to hear what's the difference between the real British Crunch vs the Invective Crunch sound. But I guess this is not really what you're looking after.

I assume (Really don't know for sure) that they should be almost identical, except the minor sound change due to the different output transformer. The gain stages seem to be the same as far as I have researched.

Peavey 5150: V1, V2, V5, V3, V4 (This order the signal passes through in all channels. "Clean", Crunch and Lead)
V1, V2 and V5 are the gain stages. (These are the weird names Peavey uses). V3 is the loop and V4 the phase inverter.

Invective: Pretty much the same, except the clean channel is kept out of these three gain stages. (The Invective has a separate Preamp tube/circuit for cleans only, which is why it is actually clean)

So as far as I know Crunch and Lead share the same circuit on the Invective, as well as the Crunch channel/mode from the 5150 did. So if the Lead channel of the Invective really sounds the same (except the different output transofrmer), the crunch channel must also sound identical to the 5150. At least this is what I think after taking a look at the gain stages and signal paths.

 

[MASS DEFECT]

Well, I could record a riff in a looper and plug it into my Marshall JVM and Invective so you get to hear what's the difference between the real British Crunch vs the Invective Crunch sound. But I guess this is not really what you're looking after.

I assume (Really don't know for sure) that they should be almost identical, except the minor sound change due to the different output transformer. The gain stages seem to be the same as far as I have researched.

Peavey 5150: V1, V2, V5, V3, V4 (This order the signal passes through in all channels. "Clean", Crunch and Lead)
V1, V2 and V5 are the gain stages. (These are the weird names Peavey uses). V3 is the loop and V4 the phase inverter.

Invective: Pretty much the same, except the clean channel is kept out of these three gain stages. (The Invective has a separate Preamp tube/circuit for cleans only, which is why it is actually clean)

So as far as I know Crunch and Lead share the same circuit on the Invective, as well as the Crunch channel/mode from the 5150 did. So if the Lead channel of the Invective really sounds the same (except the different output transofrmer), the crunch channel must also sound identical to the 5150. At least this is what I think after taking a look at the gain stages and signal paths.

Thanks for the thorough explanation. If it is identical to the 5150 crunch then I'd assume it is fatter than the EVH 5153 crunch. I suppose you can get a tighter crunch sound with the clean section boosted with the built-in od?

 

[Blast Meat]

Thanks for the thorough explanation. If it is identical to the 5150 crunch then I'd assume it is fatter than the EVH 5153 crunch. I suppose you can get a tighter crunch sound with the clean section boosted with the built-in od?

Nah unluckily not, the clean channel is just really good for cleans. The boost will ad just a little bit of "tube saturation like" overdrive, but it's pretty dark. I would really stick to the crunch channel. It actually sounds very similar to my Marshall JVM on OD1 Orange mode (Which is like a hot rodded JCM 800 with an extra gain stage)

The Pre-Gain on clean is not really adding gain, but volume. And then the 6l6 tubes start to saturate, which by far doesn't sound as nice as when you do this to a Marshall with EL34 power tubes. I can explain it to you in case you're interested but I'd really just use the clean channel for clean and bluesy clean tones.

I just made a quick recording for you:
https://soundcloud.com/user-814170134/invective-clean-vs-crunch/s-IdxTdGzZvox

1. Take is the Clean with OD activated. I had to crank treble on both the boost and EQ, but it is still very dark
2. Is Crunch channel with Pre Gain and EQ on Noon. No boost.
3. Is Crunch, but with boost activated. (Level and Tone are at noon, too)

Another recording:
https://soundcloud.com/user-814170134/invective-vs-jvm/s-rLsAE4vkslx

This is the Invective and the Marshall JVM straight into a reactive load box using some cab IR's. Invective is the first half, my Marshall JVM the second. I was recording this riff into a looper, feeding the exact same signal in both amps. So only the amps have changed in this recording setup, everything else is 100% the same.

Settings: Everything at noon, except the JVM's gain was at 9 o clock because it has a shitload of gain.

Take a look of the amps frequency:


The Marshall Crunch sounds a little brighter, crisper and has less mids, whereas the Peavey sounds like a Peavey, heavy, thick and dark voiced. Way more mids and bass. This is funny, because a lot of people think british tones have tons of midrange, but actually the marshall sound consists of a very thin and bright sound. Far less bass than the Peavey Invective.

To explain what you see:
The left frequency curve is the Invective (the second recording I made for you) and the second curve is the real Marshall. The white line shows an EQ-Profile to make the Marshall sound like the peavey. So you can see the Marshall has way less bass below 60 Hz. The low mids between ~150 and 600 Hz are actually 1-2 db quiter than the Invective. Then the Marshall is a lot brighter between 1000 and ~7000-8000 Hz, which is the "presence" frequency that make the guitar sound in your face, but also pretty harsh. And then again, the very top end, 10k and above is much lauder on the Invective, causing the very bright top end fizz we associate with the 5150 fizz.

So to sound more like a Marshall (at least like my JVM) you can turn down mids and add more treble and cut off the very top end, but you can't do this with the presence control since this starts to effect the frequencies from 1000 hz onwards. (I measured this on a lot of amps). So you would need some kind of EQ pedal in the loop to just get rid to the frequencies above 10k Hz. (Which is why I use the Amptweaker Defizzerator in the FX loop of many of my amps. You can cut this above 10k fizz without affecting the treble of your amp)


It works well with less gain, and if you add more gain you can easily use it for metal rythem (which is what many bands did with the 5150, too)
The fizz you hear is the typical 5150 sound due to the three gain stages the signal has to pass before hitting the powertube stage. They add a lot of upper frequency content and harmonics.

Anyway, I would really stick to the crunch channel with the Invective when you're aiming to play rock and mid gain stuff...

Edit: BTW I am running my bias at stock values (26 mA per tube) so it is pretty cold. I think it will sound a bit smoother and warmer when you set it a little higher, which is quickly done on the Invective. I remember some people in this thread saying that rising the bias was improving the tone for them a lot.

 

[MASS DEFECT]

Nah unluckily not, the clean channel is just really good for cleans. The boost will ad just a little bit of "tube saturation like" overdrive, but it's pretty dark. I would really stick to the crunch channel. It actually sounds very similar to my Marshall JVM on OD1 Orange mode (Which is like a hot rodded JCM 800 with an extra gain stage)

The Pre-Gain on clean is not really adding gain, but volume. And then the 6l6 tubes start to saturate, which by far doesn't sound as nice as when you do this to a Marshall with EL34 power tubes. I can explain it to you in case you're interested but I'd really just use the clean channel for clean and bluesy clean tones.

I just made a quick recording for you:
https://soundcloud.com/user-814170134/invective-clean-vs-crunch/s-IdxTdGzZvox

1. Take is the Clean with OD activated. I had to crank treble on both the boost and EQ, but it is still very dark
2. Is Crunch channel with Pre Gain and EQ on Noon. No boost.
3. Is Crunch, but with boost activated. (Level and Tone are at noon, too)

Another recording:
https://soundcloud.com/user-814170134/invective-vs-jvm/s-rLsAE4vkslx

This is the Invective and the Marshall JVM straight into a reactive load box using some cab IR's. Invective is the first half, my Marshall JVM the second. I was recording this riff into a looper, feeding the exact same signal in both amps. So only the amps have changed in this recording setup, everything else is 100% the same.

Settings: Everything at noon, except the JVM's gain was at 9 o clock because it has a shitload of gain.

Take a look of the amps frequency:
View attachment 85249

The Marshall Crunch sounds a little brighter, crisper and has less mids, whereas the Peavey sounds like a Peavey, heavy, thick and dark voiced. Way more mids and bass. This is funny, because a lot of people think british tones have tons of midrange, but actually the marshall sound consists of a very thin and bright sound. Far less bass than the Peavey Invective.

To explain what you see:
The left frequency curve is the Invective (the second recording I made for you) and the second curve is the real Marshall. The white line shows an EQ-Profile to make the Marshall sound like the peavey. So you can see the Marshall has way less bass below 60 Hz. The low mids between ~150 and 600 Hz are actually 1-2 db quiter than the Invective. Then the Marshall is a lot brighter between 1000 and ~7000-8000 Hz, which is the "presence" frequency that make the guitar sound in your face, but also pretty harsh. And then again, the very top end, 10k and above is much lauder on the Invective, causing the very bright top end fizz we associate with the 5150 fizz.

So to sound more like a Marshall (at least like my JVM) you can turn down mids and add more treble and cut off the very top end, but you can't do this with the presence control since this starts to effect the frequencies from 1000 hz onwards. (I measured this on a lot of amps). So you would need some kind of EQ pedal in the loop to just get rid to the frequencies above 10k Hz. (Which is why I use the Amptweaker Defizzerator in the FX loop of many of my amps. You can cut this above 10k fizz without affecting the treble of your amp)


It works well with less gain, and if you add more gain you can easily use it for metal rythem (which is what many bands did with the 5150, too)
The fizz you hear is the typical 5150 sound due to the three gain stages the signal has to pass before hitting the powertube stage. They add a lot of upper frequency content and harmonics.

Anyway, I would really stick to the crunch channel with the Invective when you're aiming to play rock and mid gain stuff...

Edit: BTW I am running my bias at stock values (26 mA per tube) so it is pretty cold. I think it will sound a bit smoother and warmer when you set it a little higher, which is quickly done on the Invective. I remember some people in this thread saying that rising the bias was improving the tone for them a lot.

Man, I appreciate the effort that went into this! I'll go find some quality cans when I get home and listen to the clips. I've tried a JVM 205 and I do like those crunch sounds. Easy to dial in some 60s and 70s rock tones.

When my band mate had an Invective, I remember it being brighter than a 6505 while retaining that low mid rawness. The Treble and presence pots have more useable range, at least. Too bad, I didn't get to try the crunch channel before he moved on to an EVH 6L6.

 

[Deadpool_25]

Yes exactly, I mean the setting of presence and resonance that sounded like the 6505. Would be awesome to know

6505 / Invective:
Gain: 4.5 / 4.5
Low: 6 / 8
Mid: 4.5 / 4.5
High: 6 / 4.5
Resonance: 6 / 7.5
Presence: 7 / 5

Invective had master boost on 10, full power, post gain 8, boost and gate off. Master volume 1.

6505 post gain was on 1.

Both amps connected to my custom 2x12 with a V30 and a Creamback. Mesa Headtrack used for a/b switching.

I think that’s about it.

 

[Blast Meat]

6505 / Invective:
Gain: 4.5 / 4.5
Low: 6 / 8
Mid: 4.5 / 4.5
High: 6 / 4.5
Resonance: 6 / 7.5
Presence: 7 / 5

Invective had master boost on 10, full power, post gain 8, boost and gate off. Master volume 1.

6505 post gain was on 1.

Both amps connected to my custom 2x12 with a V30 and a Creamback. Mesa Headtrack used for a/b switching.

I think that’s about it.

Thank you!
I will try these settings today after work. Can't wait! I'm going to compare your settings to the darker sound produces by less master boost. I'm curious how similar the invective sounds without the additional treble caused by the mb, maybe then it comes also close to the 6505 without putting treble and presence down a little. Man I should play and practice instead of doing this

 

[Deadpool_25]

Hey Invective owners. Anybody got a good EVH sound from the crunch channel? Like the blue channel on 50w EVH 5153? Something like a tight crunch, almost Marshall-y sound that is good for 80s hair metal.

I know the 6505+ can do that but I don't know if the Invective can. It sounds looser and has tons of gain even on the crunch channel on video demos.

Again I’ll say I found the tones from the 6505 in the Invective (except the clean of course). My understanding is the 6505 isn’t as tight and has less gain compared to the 6505+. From everything I’ve heard invective was based on a block letter 5150. However the Invective has a presence “mod”which also decreases low end. That, along with the onboard boost let the amp get plenty tight.

The crunch channel with quite low gain settings might be in the ballpark. In most video demos the guys seem to want to start with everything at noon and then they are hesitant to deviate far from that. There are some really good tones with lower gain settings though.

On the 6505, you can ballpark that tone in the “clean” mode with a high gain setting (or perhaps the crunch mode with a low gain setting—is it my imagination or is there overlap in those two?).

 

[Deadpool_25]

Thank you!
I will try these settings today after work. Can't wait! I'm going to compare your settings to the darker sound produces by less master boost. I'm curious how similar the invective sounds without the additional treble caused by the mb, maybe then it comes also close to the 6505 without putting treble and presence down a little. Man I should play and practice instead of doing this

When I had my 5150 I a/b’d it with the Invective and I don’t remember needing to change the tone knobs. I wonder if I had the master boost on and if I was at full or half power. Honestly can’t remember but I probably posted it in this thread a long time ago lol

 

[runbirdman]

If anyone’s curious, the next run of Invective 120s will start shipping between mid-December and early January next year per Peavey. I was really hoping it wouldn’t be quite that long but the Invective checks a lot of boxes for me so at least now I have an estimate.

 

[I play music]

I’m really curious about when the 120 is going to start being fulfilled. I’m 60 days into a preorder. I know the people who purchased the MH have waited much longer but it’d be nice to get a ballpark ETA and it doesn’t seem like anyone knows. I think Peavey had production issues even before COVID so I suspect it could be next year before I get mine.

If anyone’s curious, the next run of Invective 120s will start shipping between mid-December and early January next year per Peavey. I was really hoping it wouldn’t be quite that long but the Invective checks a lot of boxes for me so at least now I have an estimate.

Just get some other amp man, there are hundreds out there ...

used 5150 style amps can be had for quite affordable btw