Abasi Concepts/Larada Megathread

[narad]

Could do without the condescension and still make the point.

Fair enough but I think it was hinted at in more polite and passive ways several times already.

 

[A-Branger]

I'm just saying that as a customer, I would be much more in ease, if the guy with the last say on things would be the one who designed the instrument thoroughly and knows everything about it

actually I would be more at ease knowing the final hand/owner/Tosin in this case, knows how to play. REALLY KNOWS how to play. IF the guitar is great for him, then it would be 102398x times mroe than enough for my sloppy playing. If HE out of everyone cant find anything wrong with teh guitar, a guy whos been playing longer then I am, who had owned pretty muhc every high end guitar out there, whos been involved with one of the biggest names in guitar brands on a signature gear, ect ect. If hes happy with the guitar, then I will too.

I could be a gear nerd, but I bet hes an even bigger guitar nerd than I am.

And that "knows everything about it" statement. I pretty much have a big knowledge how guitars are made, how they work, and what makes a guitar good or not. Only thing I do not have is enough hand-on experience with guitars in order to get used to bad VS good VS great gear. I could recite every single tone wood characteristic out there, I could name you pickups and what they are good for, but I dont have the experience of playing them in order to confirm my knoledge. So I could talk hours with you about gear, yet I wont be able to give you 100% advice. This knoledge/experience can come from both a luthier who has build X amount of gutiars in every single spec variation to know what works, or from an experienced player who has used every single spec combination guitar out there

And yes, like you, I do also want a luthier who knows about the guitar. I want to know the guitar is well build too. But you can go two ways:
-Have a great luthier with vast knowledge and experience to build something
or/and
-Have an amazing player with great experience to oversee the final product to check it plays and performs up to a pro player of his level

In this scenario you had the two, so why the complain?. Who cares what the headstock says. It could say "Bublegum Guitars" and I would still get it. Or you gonna go that if it doesnt say the luthier's name, then its not a "Real guitar".... ok so how about Ibanez, or ESP (since probably EII "its not real ESP" )


A formula1 mechanic/engineer doesnt needs to drive to know how good a car needs to be build, but he needs to know how to take the advice of the driver to improve his car. Same way a F1 driver might know the basic of how the car works/its made so he can communicate with his mechanics, but he for dam sure would know what is a good car and whats a great one

 

[j3ps3]

actually I would be more at ease knowing the final hand/owner/Tosin in this case, knows how to play. REALLY KNOWS how to play. IF the guitar is great for him, then it would be 102398x times mroe than enough for my sloppy playing. If HE out of everyone cant find anything wrong with teh guitar, a guy whos been playing longer then I am, who had owned pretty muhc every high end guitar out there, whos been involved with one of the biggest names in guitar brands on a signature gear, ect ect. If hes happy with the guitar, then I will too.

I could be a gear nerd, but I bet hes an even bigger guitar nerd than I am.

And that "knows everything about it" statement. I pretty much have a big knowledge how guitars are made, how they work, and what makes a guitar good or not. Only thing I do not have is enough hand-on experience with guitars in order to get used to bad VS good VS great gear. I could recite every single tone wood characteristic out there, I could name you pickups and what they are good for, but I dont have the experience of playing them in order to confirm my knoledge.

You can say anything, but it doesn't change how I feel about this. I'm not trying to change anybody's mind here. It's just how _I_ feel. You can know your way around the instrument, but like I've said before, even the best of the best can be fooled by just doing a good setup and a good sales pitch. And with prices like that, I want a guitar for me. Not guitar made for Tosin.

So I could talk hours with you about gear, yet I wont be able to give you 100% advice. This knoledge/experience can come from both a luthier who has build X amount of gutiars in every single spec variation to know what works, or from an experienced player who has used every single spec combination guitar out there

It's not that simple. Wood and tones aren't absolute things. I could give you some research information regarding this, but I doubt it would help, as it's in Finnish. There are certain characteristics yes, but it's really not that simple. And this is something what most PLAYERS just don't get and that's what makes me hesitant about a situation like this. You can try it out on your own by playing different instruments blindfolded. Suddenly everything will get a lot harder to recognize. Just purely how the guitar looks will affect how you think of it. There's just so much mumbo-jumbo around guitars. I'm not at all saying these are bad instruments. Just that it makes _me_ hesitant and that I don't really like the trend going on.

And yes, like you, I do also want a luthier who knows about the guitar. I want to know the guitar is well build too. But you can go two ways:
-Have a great luthier with vast knowledge and experience to build something
or/and
-Have an amazing player with great experience to oversee the final product to check it plays and performs up to a pro player of his level

In this scenario you had the two, so why the complain?. Who cares what the headstock says. It could say "Bublegum Guitars" and I would still get it. Or you gonna go that if it doesnt say the luthier's name, then its not a "Real guitar".... ok so how about Ibanez, or ESP (since probably EII "its not real ESP" )

A formula1 mechanic/engineer doesnt needs to drive to know how good a car needs to be build, but he needs to know how to take the advice of the driver to improve his car. Same way a F1 driver might know the basic of how the car works/its made so he can communicate with his mechanics, but he for dam sure would know what is a good car and whats a great one

Again, opinion. Just doesn't float my boat. Some people like avocado, I don't. Nothing wrong about this whole thing, just not for me. I don't hold that much value on Tosin being a part of this. A good luthier, _to_me_, is more important (good luthier, in a hypothetical situation where I'd be placing an order, knows he's way around the instrument, so Tosin doesn't really add any value to this for me) and I was just wondering how people are so excited about this, because to me, it's not exciting. I can totally understand the opposite ground, but was wondering if I'm only one feeling this way. Not trying to take anything away from anybody, whatever floats your boat, dude. Not looking to buy something that Tosin likes. I want an instrument made for me.

 

[_MonSTeR_]

I’m ashamed to say that I’ve read the whole of this thread!

In the next issue of Marvel’s “What If?”... What if Tosin had stayed with Ibanez?

 

[narad]

You can know your way around the instrument, but like I've said before, even the best of the best can be fooled by just doing a good setup and a good sales pitch.

Frankly, if Tosin can be fooled by a good setup, then the hell if the rest of us have any chance at telling a great guitar apart from a cinder block.

I'm just really confused with your point. I mean, I understand your point, but you seem to know these finish research things, so if someone came to you and asked you to build a better ERG guitar than this thing Tosin's come up with over a few years, what would you do differently? And how does the ~"speed sound travels through the board" impact this process? Like player-driven vs. builder-driven, concretely, how is the guitar you make going to be better than the one Abasi guitars creates taking Tosin's feedback to Grover's shop?

Not sure this is the best place to hash it out -- maybe spin it out into a different thread as it's not relevant to this particular discussion -- but you should probably spend some time thinking about it because as a potential luthier, this is like fairly representative of your customer base. And as someone who still hangs out on TGP a fair bit and has pursued various "mojo"-based hocus pocus, so someone very into particular specs that fall on the builder side (materials and joins and finishes, whatnot), I really don't follow this logic.

 

[diagrammatiks]

Frankly, if Tosin can be fooled by a good setup, then the hell if the rest of us have any chance at telling a great guitar apart from a cinder block.

I'm just really confused with your point. I mean, I understand your point, but you seem to know these finish research things, so if someone came to you and asked you to build a better ERG guitar than this thing Tosin's come up with over a few years, what would you do differently? And how does the ~"speed sound travels through the board" impact this process? Like player-driven vs. builder-driven, concretely, how is the guitar you make going to be better than the one Abasi guitars creates taking Tosin's feedback to Grover's shop?

Not sure this is the best place to hash it out -- maybe spin it out into a different thread as it's not relevant to this particular discussion -- but you should probably spend some time thinking about it because as a potential luthier, this is like fairly representative of your customer base. And as someone who still hangs out on TGP a fair bit and has pursued various "mojo"-based hocus pocus, so someone very into particular specs that fall on the builder side (materials and joins and finishes, whatnot), I really don't follow this logic.

Plus that’s all the parts the actual builder is supposed to take care off. So I really don’t understand.

It’s not like there’s a dude called mr Ibanez sitting in Japan building all the guitars.

 

[narad]

Plus that’s all the parts the actual builder is supposed to take care off. So I really don’t understand.

It’s not like there’s a dude called mr Ibanez sitting in Japan building all the guitars.

Yea, and overlooking the fact that very, very few decent builders are exceptional ERG players. If I had to guess, running "builder -> Tosin" feedback loop 5-10 times is going to result in a far better guitar than a builder trying to guess what works as an ERG instrument + reading journal papers on wood properties for several months.

 

[j3ps3]

Frankly, if Tosin can be fooled by a good setup, then the hell if the rest of us have any chance at telling a great guitar apart from a cinder block.

I'm just really confused with your point. I mean, I understand your point, but you seem to know these finish research things, so if someone came to you and asked you to build a better ERG guitar than this thing Tosin's come up with over a few years, what would you do differently? And how does the ~"speed sound travels through the board" impact this process? Like player-driven vs. builder-driven, concretely, how is the guitar you make going to be better than the one Abasi guitars creates taking Tosin's feedback to Grover's shop?

I would make it for you and you only. I would ask you all the questions I need to have an answer for to get there. My job is to listen to you and understand what you're looking to get and then talk the specs out with you. Not replicating something somebody else likes. If you want to get exact same guitar Tosin uses, nothing wrong with that. Just wouldn't be the way I would go.

 

[diagrammatiks]

I would make it for you and you only. I would ask you all the questions I need to have an answer for to get there. My job is to listen you and understand what you're looking to get and then talk the specs out with you. Not replicating something somebody else likes. If you want to get exact same guitar Tosin uses, nothing wrong with that. Just wouldn't be the way I would go.

See now that’s a nice way to say things.

Also irrelevant completely to this thread.

Can we stop beating this horse now.

 

[j3ps3]

See now that’s a nice way to say things.

Also irrelevant completely to this thread.

Can we stop beating this horse now.

Sorry, if you've felt like I've been hostile about this. Not at all my intention. Not a native so I might miss something when just reading/writing.

Man, I feel like I'm going to get crucified just for voicing my opinion.

 

[diagrammatiks]

Sorry, if you've felt like I've been hostile about this. Not at all my intention. Not a native so I might miss something when just reading/writing.

Man, I feel like I'm going to get crucified just for voicing my opinion.

No people are confused because you aren’t making any sense. The entire existence of sognature guitars is premised in buying someone else’s idea.

This particular guitar company has never purported to be a true custom shop.

A brand name is not the builder. Sometimes they might be named after the same guy.

 

[narad]

I would make it for you and you only. I would ask you all the questions I need to have an answer for to get there. My job is to listen to you and understand what you're looking to get and then talk the specs out with you. Not replicating something somebody else likes. If you want to get exact same guitar Tosin uses, nothing wrong with that. Just wouldn't be the way I would go.

Fair enough. I'm sure some people would prefer the "mixologist" approach to guitar building.

But by the same token, as someone that's placed like 15 custom guitar orders, I F everything up. It doesn't matter how much I chat with the luthier beforehand, or how good the luthier it is. And they've all be objectively great guitars (if you're asking questions, then we're dealing purely in the subjective anyway). But each one is a totally amazing guitar in one respect and some mistake/F-up/expensive-lesson-learned in another. Others are discoveries of things I like that I wouldn't have known, that I couldn't have commented on if you asked me pre-build.

My own 2-cents is that if I'm venturing into my first ERG 8-string FF, just going with whatever Tosin does is probably going to be a great start, and better than trying to describe what I want to a luthier. Because that was like a blank slate when I did it.

But yea, don't want to derail the thread (from more entertaining things) further.

 

[j3ps3]

No people are confused because you aren’t making any sense. The entire existence of sognature guitars is premised in buying someone else’s idea.

This particular guitar company has never purported to be a true custom shop.

A brand name is not the builder. Sometimes they might be named after the same guy.

Sigh. I've never said so. I said, I'd like to go direct with the builder in a price range like this, because it's possible.

 

[diagrammatiks]

Sigh. I've never said so. I said, I'd like to go direct with the builder in a price range like this, because it's possible.

That’s fine. But also your opinion. Also off topic. Also there’s at least 2 if not more private stock mark Holcomb sigs out there at 15k. Go fight those guys.

 

[RiksRiks]

It’s not like there’s a dude called mr Ibanez sitting in Japan building all the guitars.

"Oh hai Mr. Ibanuzzzz can I have ERG puhleeez!"

 

[j3ps3]

That’s fine. But also your opinion. Also off topic. Also there’s at least 2 if not more private stock mark Holcomb sigs out there at 15k. Go fight those guys.

Never stated anything else, so what's your problem? Not looking for a fight, just asking if I'm alone with the opinion, and for that I get attacked for.

 

[diagrammatiks]

Never stated anything else, so what's your problem? Not looking for a fight, just asking if I'm alone with the opinion, and for that I get attacked for.

Honestly this is a thread about Tosin sig guitar. So yes you will most likely you will be alone in your opinion.

But that’s the beauty of the free market. Choices are good and people can choose where to spend their money.

It’s not your money so whether you think it makes sense for someone to spend it like that is irevalent. The only thing that really matters is trying to attract customers that want your service.

 

[_MonSTeR_]

My own 2-cents is that if I'm venturing into my first ERG 8-string FF, just going with whatever Tosin does is probably going to be a great start, and better than trying to describe what I want to a luthier. Because that was like a blank slate when I did .

At the risk of further derailing, I have to say that I think this is the "correct" answer. Who better to determine (not necesarily design) what a certain type of guitar "should" be like than the biggest proponent of that type of guitar?

 

[j3ps3]

Ok, so basically I have the wrong opinion to post in this thread. I'll do you a favor and step back then. Bye

 

[diagrammatiks]

Ok, so basically I have the wrong opinion to post in this thread. I'll do you a favor and step back then. Bye

Honestly how did you think a thread about people interested in a guys sig guitar was going to go.