Abasi Concepts/Larada Megathread

[cardinal]

This is just an absolute disaster, but anyone with a pitchfork in hand remember that most folks end up in a bad situation because they just screwed up, not because they had some nefarious intentions.

 

[ElysianGuitars]

ABASI concepts purchased manufactured goods from Falbo Designs LLC

How can Frank embezzle from his own LLC?

 

[MaxOfMetal]

This is just an absolute disaster, but anyone with a pitchfork in hand remember that most folks end up in a bad situation because they just screwed up, not because they had some nefarious intentions.

It's definitely a rough start for a young brand, but no one is dead. No one is injured, minus a bruised ego and lacerated pride.

Tosin is now working with Grover Fucking Jackson, and Frank is bringing new and exciting guitars to NAMM 19'.

All customers have been refunded.

Measured against other luthier implosions, this is probably the best overall outcome.

 

[diagrammatiks]

How can Frank embezzle from his own LLC?

Man I love your pickups and your work but you've just entered into crazyville.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

How can Frank embezzle from his own LLC?

You can embezzle from your own company. Just because you own the company doesn't mean you're King and are able to get funds whenever you want, especially if you have outstanding orders or owe suppliers.

You can take a loan from your company, or a salary. It's really about intent and how it was accounted for.

 

[Dreamfullofzen]

How can Frank embezzle from his own LLC?

I am tempted to use the inigo montoya meme but I've used up my levity quata for the day.

 

[ElysianGuitars]

Man I love your pickups and your work but you've just entered into crazyville.

What is so crazy about that question?

How high is the burden of proof on embezzlement against your own company?

 

[Lorcan Ward]

All customers have been refunded.

You can't get lost time back but a refund makes a huge difference in these circumstances. Especially when there is no nonsense delaying it.

 

[GXPO]

What is so crazy about that question?

What exactly is your stake in this? Was Elysian involved in the agreement or production?

You can embezzle from your own company in US law if there is intent and you're seeking to deprive the company. Otherwise, any money taken off the top would be declared as income and taxable or taken as a loan and subject to different rules. (Taken from google, I'm no lawyer)

 

[MaxOfMetal]

What is so crazy about that question?

How high is the burden of proof on embezzlement against your own company?

Depends on what a forensic accountant can find.

Essentially any funds taken from the business without proper cause and accounting can be construed as embezzlement, so long as intent can be shown. That's the biggest part of embezzlement: intent.

 

[ElysianGuitars]

Depends on what a forensic accountant can find.

Essentially any funds taken from the business without proper cause and accounting can be construed as embezzlement, so long as intent can be shown. That's the biggest part of embezzlement: intent.

There's a pretty high bar for intent, right?

 

[GXPO]

There's a pretty high bar for intent, right?

Considering Frank couldn't produce documentation relating to the missing money, how likely is it that he declared it as a personal loan or income?

 

[ElysianGuitars]

Considering Frank couldn't produce documentation relating to the missing money, how likely is it that he declared it as a personal loan or income?

I don't know, Tosin hasn't provided any evidence, so we're only going on his word. He's also stating rather factually that Frank embezzled, so I'd think if that's not the case then there is surely a possibility of a slander suit.

Not that I'm saying Frank was sloppy, but is sloppy accounting enough to prove intent?

 

[diagrammatiks]

What is so crazy about that question?

How high is the burden of proof on embezzlement against your own company?

I mean definitionally you can only embezzle money form yourself or someplace you work from. Otherwise, it’s just stealing.

 

[GXPO]

I don't know, Tosin hasn't provided any evidence, so we're only going on his word. He's also stating rather factually that Frank embezzled, so I'd think if that's not the case then there is surely a possibility of a slander suit.

Not that I'm saying Frank was sloppy, but is sloppy accounting enough to prove intent?

Probably not, but between what we've been told by Tosin and what we've not been told by Frank it paints a pretty grim picture. This is the court of public opinion and the target audience to which Frank intends to sell his new range of guitars and pleading the fifth while having other people argue his case for him isn't working in his favour. Maybe he's been told at this point that he shouldn't say any more, maybe he doesn't want to get mixed up in a shitstorm, who knows.

Point being, based on the information we have here, it looks bad on Frank. Outside of the accusations of stealing (which has been properly explained on the balance of it) and the inference that Tosin was overbearing in his demands for information, what is the defence?

There are plenty of people here who can read between the lines and Frank's 'statement' speaks volumes.

EDIT: I know we don't have all the facts here. I'm not meaning to say this is all definitely the case, but viewed objectively, how does it really look?

 

[ElysianGuitars]

Probably not, but between what we've been told by Tosin and what we've not been told by Frank it paints a pretty grim picture. This is the court of public opinion and the target audience to which Frank intends to sell his new range of guitars and pleading the fifth while having other people argue his case for him isn't working in his favour. Maybe he's been told at this point that he shouldn't say any more, maybe he doesn't want to get mixed up in a shitstorm, who knows.

Point being, based on the information we have here, it looks bad on Frank. Outside of the accusations of stealing (which has been properly explained on the balance of it) and the inference that Tosin was overbearing in his demands for information, what is the defence?

There are plenty of people here who can read between the lines and Frank's 'statement' speaks volumes.

EDIT: I know we don't have all the facts here. I'm not meaning to say this is all definitely the case, but viewed objectively, how does it really look?

Just to be clear, Frank isn't having me argue his case for him.

 

[GXPO]

Just to be clear, Frank isn't having me argue his case for him.

Not having you explicitly argue for him, but he's not here and you are. I get that you're defending someone who you have a relationship with and I'm not criticizing that, just to be clear.

 

[prlgmnr]

How can Frank embezzle from his own LLC?

I'm not sure we're all ready for analysis as astute as this.

 

[diagrammatiks]

I'm not sure we're all ready for analysis as astute as this.

I mean. Really

 

[MaxOfMetal]

I don't know, Tosin hasn't provided any evidence, so we're only going on his word. He's also stating rather factually that Frank embezzled, so I'd think if that's not the case then there is surely a possibility of a slander suit.

Not that I'm saying Frank was sloppy, but is sloppy accounting enough to prove intent?

Slander is spoken, libel is written.

The catch is, if it's proven as true, it's not libel. There are further complications, so much like the embezzlement claim, without all the evidence it's impossible to say.