Any Brits here?

[hairychris]

Unionist or Loyalist front?

Prod of Scottish descent. She had mental stories about working her family's business and everyone had to change names when working Catholic/Unionist events (her name is.... very Loyalist...).

Still, she's very equitable and absolutely loathes the DUP!

UBrexit great, really. A PM has a national vote to settle a dispute in his own party, ends up ruining it for everyone.

I'm from a Scottish town that has been seriously hampered by the common fisheries policy, but i think folk are delusional if they believe that being out of EU will somehow improve their lot.

To cap it all, there's been protests about some golf club owner coming to the UK.

Yeah. It's all nonsense!

 

[hairychris]

Different response than what I'd anticipated...

I might be a bit slow on the uptake but I'm not sure what you expected!

I'm lefty-ish and think that Corbyn is a liability.

vote till you get the result politicians want. educate the voter. referendum on a referendum. true democracy.

The problem is that the UK's political system doesn't work very well with referendums. We're a representative democracy as opposed to a direct one, and on a legal front any referendum is not binding unless specifically made so in the act. This one? Legally non-binding. However the government took it as politically binding which isn't quite the same.

One thing that's interesting is that the Brexiter politicians started out by saying that we'll still be part of the common market (indeed, many campaigned on it) but now they're shouting for cliff-edge or nothing.

So, with this in mind, the referendum itself was massively problematic because it did not specify what the exit criteria would be. It would be like if remain won we'd go fully into the Euro, Schengen, and dump all of our opt-outs.

 

[StevenC]

vote till you get the result politicians want. educate the voter. referendum on a referendum. true democracy.

Campaign was based on lies, lots of people voted based on the lies, lots of people voted as a protest to the way the EU is currently run not expecting Leave to win. Now one way or the other we're not getting the result anyone wanted, so yeah I think we should have another referendum. Whatever deal or not we get won't make anyone happy.

Prod of Scottish descent. She had mental stories about working her family's business and everyone had to change names when working Catholic/Unionist events (her name is.... very Loyalist...).

Still, she's very equitable and absolutely loathes the DUP!



Yeah. It's all nonsense!

I'm starting to think I have a different definition of Unionists to you guys. Republican is the opposite of Unionist or Loyalist, which are shades of the same thing, right?

 

[Nonads]

Did UK citizens even vote to join the EU? And why don’t they use the Euro currency?

 

[BenjaminW]

I might be a bit slow on the uptake but I'm not sure what you expected!

I'm lefty-ish and think that Corbyn is a liability.

I meant my response as a joke and wasn't expecting a serious response at all. It's cool though. I agree with you though on Corbyn being a liability even though I'm on the complete opposite side of the spectrum as far as political views go.

 

[r33per]

Did UK citizens even vote to join the EU? And why don’t they use the Euro currency?

The UK tried to join the EU (or whatever its genesis name was) after the second world war, but France blocked it. It wasn't until the early 70s that we had a referendum, joined the Economic Union and our involvement ran on from there.

The Euro is a separate issue. When it came about there was an opt-in by member states - someone correct me if I'm wrong here - but the UK, under both Conservative and Labour governments, elected not to do so.

All best summed up by Sir Humphrey Appleby from the BBC comedy Yes, Minister:

Sir Humphrey: Minister, Britain has had the same foreign policy objective for at least the last five hundred years: to create a disunited Europe. In that cause we have fought with the Dutch against the Spanish, with the Germans against the French, with the French and Italians against the Germans, and with the French against the Germans and Italians. Divide and rule, you see. Why should we change now, when it's worked so well?
Hacker: That's all ancient history, surely?
Sir Humphrey: Yes, and current policy. We had to break the whole thing [the EEC] up, so we had to get inside. We tried to break it up from the outside, but that wouldn't work. Now that we're inside we can make a complete pig's breakfast of the whole thing — set the Germans against the French, the French against the Italians, the Italians against the Dutch... The Foreign Office is terribly pleased; it's just like old times.

 

[hairychris]

Campaign was based on lies, lots of people voted based on the lies, lots of people voted as a protest to the way the EU is currently run not expecting Leave to win. Now one way or the other we're not getting the result anyone wanted, so yeah I think we should have another referendum. Whatever deal or not we get won't make anyone happy.

The genie's out of the bottle. Even if the economy isn't totally tanked it'll teke decades for society to get over this.

It's depressing.

I'm starting to think I have a different definition of Unionists to you guys. Republican is the opposite of Unionist or Loyalist, which are shades of the same thing, right?

Unionist = (UK) Loyalist = generally Protestant = want to remain part of "The Union" (United Kingdom) ruled from London

Republican = (Irish) Nationalist = generally Catholic = want to unite the counties of Ulster (aka Northern Ireland) with the Republic of Ireland/Eire.

There are folks on this site who are from Ireland & Northern Ireland, and I don't want to go into the politics as I'm likely to get it very wrong!

 

[hairychris]

I meant my response as a joke and wasn't expecting a serious response at all. It's cool though. I agree with you though on Corbyn being a liability even though I'm on the complete opposite side of the spectrum as far as political views go.

Ah right, I have difficulty picking up humour sometimes (and unfortunately have an almost total sense of humour failure over this shitshow)!

The UK tried to join the EU (or whatever its genesis name was) after the second world war, but France blocked it. It wasn't until the early 70s that we had a referendum, joined the Economic Union and our involvement ran on from there.

The Euro is a separate issue. When it came about there was an opt-in by member states - someone correct me if I'm wrong here - but the UK, under both Conservative and Labour governments, elected not to do so.

Yeah, pretty much. AFAIK though new countries who join the EU are expected to work towards joining the Euro. UK hasn't, Poland hasn't, most of the rest have (although there is a legitimate structural issue wrt folks like Italy & Greece being inducted on fudged figures).

What I find hilarious is that if UK ditched the EU and then rejoins it's very likely that joining the Euro will be a condition that we'd have to accept.

 

[StevenC]

Unionist = (UK) Loyalist = generally Protestant = want to remain part of "The Union" (United Kingdom) ruled from London

Republican = (Irish) Nationalist = generally Catholic = want to unite the counties of Ulster (aka Northern Ireland) with the Republic of Ireland/Eire.

There are folks on this site who are from Ireland & Northern Ireland, and I don't want to go into the politics as I'm likely to get it very wrong!

Yeah, am from NI and was confused why r33per asked "Unionist or Loyalist" and you mentioned someone with a Loyalist name using a different name for a "Catholic/Unionist" event. With regards NI, it's hard to find a scenario where Catholic and Unionist would be interchangeable.

 

[r33per]

Yeah, am from NI and was confused why r33per asked "Unionist or Loyalist" and you mentioned someone with a Loyalist name using a different name for a "Catholic/Unionist" event. With regards NI, it's hard to find a scenario where Catholic and Unionist would be interchangeable.

Oh...
my bad

 

[r33per]

What I find hilarious is that if UK ditched the EU and then rejoins it's very likely that joining the Euro will be a condition that we'd have to accept.

Oh shades of the Scotland Independence vote in 2014. Vote Yes to become independent of the UK and be governed from Edinburgh, only to then join the EU as a new member state, adpot the Euro and have part governence from Brussels/Strasbourg?

 

[hairychris]

Yeah, am from NI and was confused why r33per asked "Unionist or Loyalist" and you mentioned someone with a Loyalist name using a different name for a "Catholic/Unionist" event. With regards NI, it's hard to find a scenario where Catholic and Unionist would be interchangeable.

Yeah, sorry, got muddled up! Hence trying to avoid the whole politics thing - generally the response to any of my opinions on the subject is "Well... it's actually a lot more complicated" so I'll just not bother.

But, unlike most of the idiots screaming for hard Brexit, I am actually aware that the NI/Ireland political situation is several disasters waiting to happen.

 

[StevenC]

Yeah, sorry, got muddled up! Hence trying to avoid the whole politics thing - generally the response to any of my opinions on the subject is "Well... it's actually a lot more complicated" so I'll just not bother.

But, unlike most of the idiots screaming for hard Brexit, I am actually aware that the NI/Ireland political situation is several disasters waiting to happen.

Agreed. The EU and no border between the North and South was one of the best things to happen to Northern Ireland. A hard border could set us back 40 years. It's easy to feel Irish when you can drive from Derry to Dublin without anyone stopping you.

 

[Drew]

On a happier note, Welsh cyclist Geraint Thomas just became the first Brit to win a stage on the Alp d'Huez in the Tour de France after an absolutely epic stage today, so congrats to you guys.

 

[r33per]

Agreed... A hard border could set us back 40 years.

Ain't nobody wants to go back there.

 

[hairychris]

On a happier note, Welsh cyclist Geraint Thomas just became the first Brit to win a stage on the Alp d'Huez in the Tour de France after an absolutely epic stage today, so congrats to you guys.

GT is a monster. Always has been, but inconsistent on the TdF previously. He's still riding for Froome, although the longer he stays in yellow the more difficult the internal politics in the Sky team.

 

[Drew]

GT is a monster. Always has been, but inconsistent on the TdF previously. He's still riding for Froome, although the longer he stays in yellow the more difficult the internal politics in the Sky team.

Honestly, how Sky plays this one could be one of most interesting meta-stories of the Tour. On the Alpe d'Huez climb, Thomas definitely was riding as a domestique during the chase in places, out front pulling... But, Froome jumped out front for a bit too and while Sky dropped another domestique or two from the chase pack, Thomas stayed in (and eventually got the jump on Froome in the sprint - he was careful to explain that he picked his line knowing the only one who could possibly make a move in the last turn was Froome, but he still went for it).

If I was Sky's coach, I think I'd be calling for exactly what it looks like we just saw - the two riders to ride collaboratively, and only sacrifice Thomas for Froome if it became absolutely necessary to fend off another GC challenger, and try to stay 1-2 as long as possible so that if something unexpected happened to one of them - say, what happened to Niboli, and god knows Froome is a marked man - they had a rider waiting to take over the lead. And, if in the last stage or two they were still 1-2, well... Cross that bridge when they get there.

Though, some publication, The Guardian, I think, was speculating on the fact that Thomas could be bluffing and Sky's strategy all along was let Dumoulin mark Froome while Thomas pulls ahead with a lead no one expects him to try to hold, while secretly the plan was to let Thomas ride for the GC. It seems a bit of a stretch, at least as a pre-Tour plan, but with Dumoulin sitting a couple seconds off Froome while Thomas is 1:39 up, it's gotta at least be something they're kicking around - if this holds for a few more stages and then Thomas makes a break while Dumoulin, Froome, and at least one other Sky rider are near the front of the peloton, it puts him in an interesting position - do you chase Thomas, the current leader, and risk wearing yourself out on a break that may just be a rouse to wear you out while keeping Froome fresh, but also may be a way for Thomas to turn a minute and a half into six or seven? Or do you stick with Froome and hope someone else can do the heavy lifting reeling in Thomas, but run the risk that the GC contender to watch isn't the one you're hanging with after all? It's a fascinating question, and if it's not one that Sunweb is kicking around between stages, they probably should be.

 

[hairychris]

It's an interesting race fo' sho'. Including the peloton getting accidentally tear-gassed by French police a bit earlier today!

Anyway, Brexit is still going well.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...l-retired-eu-europe-theresa-may-a8461166.html

And our parliament now shuts down for the summer.

 

[StevenC]

It's an interesting race fo' sho'. Including the peloton getting accidentally tear-gassed by French police a bit earlier today!

Anyway, Brexit is still going well.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...l-retired-eu-europe-theresa-may-a8461166.html

And our parliament now shuts down for the summer.

Your parliament only shuts for the summer?

 

[hairychris]

Your parliament only shuts for the summer?

Supposedly.

This shower of twats seem to be doing bugger-all the rest of the time too.