Dunable quietly announces an import series

[jephjacques]

Dunables own and I'm super stoked these are apparently selling like crazy, they deserve all the success in the world

 

[T00DEEPBLUE]

WTF?

What justifies a set of Gotoh Locking tuners being a $120 extra? I can buy literally the same tuners myself brand new for $80!

If anything it should be miles cheaper than $80 because the cost of the new tuners should be offset by the cost of the stock non-locking tuners not being included with the guitar.

It's the exact same story with the pickups too. You're paying $225 full price for USA Dunable pickups when the cost of the upgrade should be negated by the cost of NOT paying for the stock pickups that come on the base model.

That makes no financial sense whatsoever. You might as well buy the stock guitar and buy the pickups and tuners yourself separately for the same price or less. At least then you get a spare set of perfectly functional stock Dunable pickups and non-locking tuners effectively for free! But if you buy the pickups and tuners as an upgrade, you get neither of those things as an extra!

WTF Dunable? What's even the point of making them extras at all?

 

[Demiurge]

^My guess is that, with whatever arrangement they have with the manufacturer, they can only get the guitars built with the OEM hardware and that these 'mods' have to be done stateside, hence the markup.

 

[metaljohn]

^My guess is that, with whatever arrangement they have with the manufacturer, they can only get the guitars built with the OEM hardware and that these 'mods' have to be done stateside, hence the markup.

I was having the same thoughts as the other guy, but this actually makes more sense. Although to be fair, I wanted to put completely different pickups and locking tuners on mine if I had ordered, and wouldn't have went with the upgrade options anyway(minus the case).

 

[Carl Kolchak]

I was having the same thoughts as the other guy, but this actually makes more sense. Although to be fair, I wanted to put completely different pickups and locking tuners on mine if I had ordered, and wouldn't have went with the upgrade options anyway(minus the case).

You might want to give the Dunable pups a shot first. The Direwolves that came in my Cyclops sound REALLY good.

 

[T00DEEPBLUE]

^My guess is that, with whatever arrangement they have with the manufacturer, they can only get the guitars built with the OEM hardware and that these 'mods' have to be done stateside, hence the markup.

Still not really an excuse to rip people off though, is it?

Seems awfully convenient that the value of the stock pickups and tuners allegedly coincides with the labour cost of adding the upgraded hardware in the US, doesn't it?

How many hours of labour does it take to replace a set of tuners with Gotoh locking ones? How many hours of labour does it take to replace a set of pickups?

It takes me about 15 minutes to do a pickup swap and 5 minutes to replace a set of tuners with locking ones. That's 0.33 hours. Or $2.17 in labour on USA minimum wage.

Pretty sure those stock pickups and tuners they're not including with the guitar are worth a bit more than 2 dollars 17 cents.

 

[metaljohn]

You might want to give the Dunable pups a shot first. The Direwolves that came in my Cyclops sound REALLY good.

I won't be able to grab one on this run anyway, but I'm just an active pickup guy.

 

[Electric Wizard]

It takes me about 15 minutes to do a pickup swap and 5 minutes to replace a set of tuners with locking ones. That's 0.33 hours. Or $2.17 in labour on USA minimum wage.

You don't pay yourself any overhead when you do it. Dunable, or any tech out there, charges more because they have operating costs and employees that probably deserve more than minimum wage too.


Anyways I wish they were doing a yeti

 

[T00DEEPBLUE]

You don't pay yourself any overhead when you do it. Dunable, or any tech out there, charges more because they have operating costs and employees that probably deserve more than minimum wage too.

I assumed minimum wage because installing a set of tuners is fundamentally unskilled work. And soldering a set of pickups into a guitar is regularly done by unskilled workers in every mass production facility in the far east you can name.

But the same logic applies though. The cost of 20 minutes worth of labour cannot be reasonably argued to be worth more than what the stock hardware is worth to justify paying full price for the upgrades. Any way you slice it, it makes no financial sense whatsoever.

The profit margins they're generating for demanding you pay full price for the upgrades over the stock hardware are fucking BIG. Disproportionately so.

 

[Demiurge]

Not for nothing, the best way to be able to say that you offer a service that you really don't want to: overcharge. If you run a shop building custom guitars, I bet there's a billion more things you'd rather have your staff do than swap hardware on the imports.

 

[Forkface]

The profit margins they're generating for demanding you pay full price for the upgrades over the stock hardware are fucking BIG. Disproportionately so.

lol then get the stock tuners and swap em yourself?
i find it funny how suddenly everyone's got a masters in economics when it comes to these things. they're charging 120 simply because they either analyzed the market already, or they're testing the waters. if no one gets them, they might lower the price. or remove the option altogether.
but i can pretty much guarantee some people will choose the 120 option just to opt out of the hassle. I mean, if its as you say & the set itself is 80 bucks, for sure I'd go that option.

 

[T00DEEPBLUE]

Not for nothing, the best way to be able to say that you offer a service that you really don't want to: overcharge. If you run a shop building custom guitars, I bet there's a billion more things you'd rather have your staff do than swap hardware on the imports.

Do the installation of the upgrades in Korea then. That way, you're not price gouging the customer by not offsetting the cost of the stock pickups & hardware against the cost of the upgrades.

Doing all these mods in the USA is a woefully inefficient way to carry them out. If you cannot carry these upgrades out in a manner that makes financial sense to the customer, what's the point? The most asinine thing you can do is pretend for a moment that consumers won't notice.

lol then get the stock tuners and swap em yourself?

That's not the point though, is it?

The point is, why make it an option in the first place when the economics of the upgrade are so nonsensical?

i find it funny how suddenly everyone's got a masters in economics when it comes to these things. they're charging 120 simply because they either analyzed the market already, or they're testing the waters. if no one gets them, they might lower the price. or remove the option altogether.

It doesn't require a masters in economics to know that this makes zero financial sense any more than you need a masters in astrology to know that the earth isn't flat.

Why scold me for my observations being those of an 'economics expert' when in the very next sentence, you demonstrate the same alleged style of so-called 'expertise' in sales and marketing?

 

[spudmunkey]

Do the installation of the upgrades in Korea then. That way, you're not price gouging the customer by not offsetting the cost of the stock pickups & hardware against the cost of the upgrades.

Doing all these mods in the USA is a woefully inefficient way to carry them out. If you cannot carry these upgrades out in a manner that makes financial sense to the customer, what's the point? The most asinine thing you can do is pretend for a moment that consumers won't notice.

That's not the point though, is it?

The point is, why make it an option in the first place when the economics of the upgrade are so nonsensical?

It doesn't require a masters in economics to know that this makes zero financial sense any more than you need a masters in astrology to know that the earth isn't flat.

Why scold me for my observations being those of an 'economics expert' when in the very next sentence, you demonstrate the same alleged style of so-called 'expertise' in sales and marketing?

Just because something costs more and they pass along those costs, that doesn't mean "price gouging" or "ripping off". It just means that it's not good value.

If I buy New York City water to be over-nighted to me in California to make my authentic New York bagels, is it a rip-off or gouging if I pass that cost to the customers who are willing to pay for it?

It's all fine and good to wish it were cheaper, but this is Dunable's first import line, no? They have ZERO sales history in this market, and setting up an in-factory customization line might just cost wwwway the heck more than you think for the volume that Dunable was willing to commit to, to keep the pricing where it is.

At my last job at a furniture dealer, it was actually cheaper for me to buy a whole "production" desk and just keep or recycle the legs than it was to just buy the top as a "special" without the legs, for an example.

 

[T00DEEPBLUE]

Just because something costs more and they pass along those costs, that doesn't mean "price gouging" or "ripping off". It just means that it's not good value.

But it is ripping off. You're being conned out of the value of the stock pickups and stock tuners being excluded from the guitar, compared to purchasing a stock Dunable and the upgrades separately.

Its disingenuous that people are trying to justify the con by saying that USA labour isn't free. When neither is the cost of the stock tuners or the stock pickups. The original labour cost of installing said stock pickups and hardware in Korea isn't free either. Yet I'm still paying full price for all of those goods and services despite receiving none of them.

If a waiter cooked up a roast dinner, but threw it all in the trash and made a second dinner, but billed you twice for 2 roast dinners, you'd be furious. Why should you pay full price for goods and services that you never received? Same thing is happening here. And it doesn't matter what the excuses are, you never bill a customer twice for only 1 meal. Just like you shouldn't bill the customer for pickups and hardware they'll never receive.

 

[Mathemagician]

I mean... dude runs a business and I cannot imagine anyone finding it worth their time to do for less than about ~$40 flat labor charge. Which I am absolutely willing to pay in order to not have to buy tools or literally give it another thought.

I haven’t bought anything either so I have no horse in this race.

But handmade USA pickups + USA labor charge is my guess. Plus if demand is high then “why not” also enters the equation.

Edit: Oh I get what you’re saying - ok then just do your thing if you want. Unlike someone running a music store Dunable just sells their own guitars. A music store will carry inventory/sell discounted parts, meanwhile places with one product/service charge more for what are essentially auxiliary services. It’s purposely pricing yourself out of a segment and only taking on work if it’s “worth it” to you.

 

[mbardu]

But it is ripping off. You're being conned out of the value of the stock pickups and stock tuners being excluded from the guitar, compared to purchasing a stock Dunable and the upgrades separately.

Its disingenuous that people are trying to justify the con by saying that USA labour isn't free. When neither is the cost of the stock tuners or the stock pickups. The original labour cost of installing said stock pickups and hardware in Korea isn't free either. Yet I'm still paying full price for all of those goods and services despite receiving none of them.

If a waiter cooked up a roast dinner, but threw it all in the trash and made a second dinner, but billed you twice for 2 roast dinners, you'd be furious. Why should you pay full price for goods and services that you never received? Same thing is happening here. And it doesn't matter what the excuses are, you never bill a customer twice for only 1 meal. Just like you shouldn't bill the customer for pickups and hardware they'll never receive.

Let's say you go to a restaurant for their famous three course menu- and in that menu they include a cocktail and their house wine.
But you decide you want none of that, and instead would prefer your favorite spirits and an expensive vintage of your favorite imported chateau that they happen to offer.
They're probably going to charge you a pretty premium for it, even though they won't incur the cost of the house wine and spirits.
Are you going to tell them that you can purchase the wine at the store and decant it yourself for less $$$? And that you're getting conned because you could buy the meal and the wine separately for less $$$?

I mean, you could, but most people understand and wouldn't.
"Conned" is a pretty strong word.

 

[Electric Wizard]

If a waiter cooked up a roast dinner, but threw it all in the trash and made a second dinner, but billed you twice for 2 roast dinners, you'd be furious. Why should you pay full price for goods and services that you never received? Same thing is happening here. And it doesn't matter what the excuses are, you never bill a customer twice for only 1 meal. Just like you shouldn't bill the customer for pickups and hardware they'll never receive.

It's more like going to a buffet that includes prime rib and choosing to fill up at the salad bar. It doesn't matter to their pricing that Olive Garden lets you just get soup and salad, they don't offer that here so you're on the hook for same as the meat eaters.

Realistically WMI is not going to keep track of upgrades on a per guitar basis, so you have no choice but to get it with the tuners and pickups, and Dunable is offering to upgrade them afterwards. They can't give you a discount because they had to buy them, and then add on the extra stuff you wanted. They could add the name brand tuners and USA pickups to everything but that would raise the price, and then instead of this the disagreement it would be about why you'd buy this if a PRS S2 or Kiesel is almost the same price. I agree that they could stand to include locking tuners since they are so common but Dunable probably wanted an 899 price point and this is the spec that WMI said they could do it for.

 

[T00DEEPBLUE]

Let's say you go to a restaurant for their famous three course menu- and in that menu they include a cocktail and their house wine.
But you decide you want none of that, and instead would prefer your favorite spirits and an expensive vintage of your favorite imported chateau that they happen to offer.
They're probably going to charge you a pretty premium for it, even though they won't incur the cost of the house wine and spirits.

The restaurant might not, but Dunable will.

 

[mbardu]

The restaurant might not, but Dunable will.

Keeping aside the fact that this would go against your point (if Dunable incurs more cost then they should be charging even more), we just don't know and are all making assumptions. Maybe it is significantly cheaper to order a bunch of guitars with stock tuners than to purchase two different batches of smaller sizes with different specs. So it saves them money.
But most importantly nobody is forced to purchase the upgrade so if that bothers you...don't do it I guess?

It's like paying 1,000$ bucks for a master grade piece of wood from a custom builder for your top and saying it's a con because the regular guitar with standard top also uses a piece of wood, and you know a guy in the lumber business who can get a similar top for 200$.

 

[spudmunkey]

A bit like people saying Apple not including a charger is a rip-off, when a) we don't know that the phone wouldn't have cost more money if they included one, and b) that the price wasn't already figured in to the cost of every other phone with an included charger. If my Note 9 didn't come with a charger, it may well have been cheaper. And if Apple included a charger, the Iphone 12 might well have cost even more.

...although including a cord that doesn't even work with any of their previous chargers was a bit of a "WTF?" move...