Problems with band member

[JxHx]

Broken beyond fixing. Get someone else.

 

[sepsis311]

Good singers are very, I mean VERY hard to come by, not like guitar players that are a dime a dozen and easy to replace. The question is, how good is her voice? I have to give the unpopular opinion that if she is amazing talented, it may be worth taking the time to try to address some of the issues, by prioritizing them, and working on them one at a time, figuring out some way to assist with the transportation debacle as number one. However if the bad attitude doesn't end after offering to help, and she's not an amazing talent who never sings a bum note, then replace her, far too much to deal with.

 

[S920e]

This is pretty straightforward stuff fella. If she isn't working, she isn't working. If she can't show for a gig, it's costing the whole band money. If she's being a diva and it's an issue, She's putting stress on the whole band. If she's not acting professionally on stage, it's making the whole band look unprofessional. You brought up three points, and all three of those points are obviously dragging the band down. If one member is dragging the whole band down, the whole band will eventually go down too. Put an ad in the paper, online, wherever, and replace her. There are thousands of singers out there that take gigging seriously and aren't just attention whores. Find one of them...before no one in your band is gigging.

 

[Sephael]

NTAH up to your disregard for strained vocal cords. You could bash your guitar to bits and have a backup ready to play for <$500, don’t be a twat and dismiss potential bodily injury because you equate it to your guitar.

That being said, ditch her. Stop mentioning when rehearsal is and see if she even bats an eye that they are no longer being held.

 

[S920e]

Good singers are very, I mean VERY hard to come by, not like guitar players that are a dime a dozen and easy to replace. The question is, how good is her voice? I have to give the unpopular opinion that if she is amazing talented, it may be worth taking the time to try to address some of the issues, by prioritizing them, and working on them one at a time, figuring out some way to assist with the transportation debacle as number one. However if the bad attitude doesn't end after offering to help, and she's not an amazing talent who never sings a bum note, then replace her, far too much to deal with.

Easy on us guitar players 'ey. It's not as simple as that. Some guys are great at playing other peoples' stuff but don't know a lick about music to be able to compose a 4 minute song. There are virtuosos that are so disciplined in music that they will argue every single step of the way instead of collaborate. There are hacks out there that wing it through a show but put on a killer performance and that can make the show go way better than a someone who stands in one spot and plays meticulously. Calling us a dime a dozen and easy to replace is borderline contemptable. I am a singer and guitarist and I play stuff from Glamour of the Kill, Get Scared, The Confession, We came as Romans, Memphis Mayfire as well as originals that the band and I have written over the years. We have a vocalist but sometimes he can't sing the parts that I can so I step in as full frontal. I do all of the screaming though. This is the part that gets tough. Singing in a smooth voice, or raspy voice, then transitioning from a singing voice to screaming voice, while never missing a note or time accent on your strings is not an easy task especially when the timing is so wild. One of our most popular covers is, "One Handed Killing" by Twelve Foot Ninja. So we are not all a dime a dozen mate.

 

[sepsis311]

Easy on us guitar players 'ey. It's not as simple as that. Some guys are great at playing other peoples' stuff but don't know a lick about music to be able to compose a 4 minute song. There are virtuosos that are so disciplined in music that they will argue every single step of the way instead of collaborate. There are hacks out there that wing it through a show but put on a killer performance and that can make the show go way better than a someone who stands in one spot and plays meticulously. Calling us a dime a dozen and easy to replace is borderline contemptable. I am a singer and guitarist and I play stuff from Glamour of the Kill, Get Scared, The Confession, We came as Romans, Memphis Mayfire as well as originals that the band and I have written over the years. We have a vocalist but sometimes he can't sing the parts that I can so I step in as full frontal. I do all of the screaming though. This is the part that gets tough. Singing in a smooth voice, or raspy voice, then transitioning from a singing voice to screaming voice, while never missing a note or time accent on your strings is not an easy task especially when the timing is so wild. One of our most popular covers is, "One Handed Killing" by Twelve Foot Ninja. So we are not all a dime a dozen mate.

Don't be offended, I am a guitar player as well, on a forum full of... guitar players.

 

[Rubbishplayer]

Well it seems like everyone agrees that she sucks, but here's a different view...

It sounds like if she didn't have these problems, you'd stick with her. It also sounds like firing her with extreme prejudice might only result in her putting a competing band together who might eat into your market share.

I'd therefore advise against getting confrontational about this. Make this about the business and your goals and the values you need to make it work, rather than about her deficiencies. Worst case reaction won't be any worse, but who knows, when she's being let go graciously, she may become motivated to act better, or at least less motivated to compete.

Its also best to have the replacement agreed in principle, so you don't miss a beat.

As frustrating as she maybe, the band is more important, and getting confrontational might only be bad for the band, no matter how satisfying it might feel.

 

[Demiurge]

The question is, how good is her voice? I have to give the unpopular opinion that if she is amazing talented, it may be worth taking the time to try to address some of the issues, by prioritizing them, and working on them one at a time, figuring out some way to assist with the transportation debacle as number one..

I can see this to an extent, but it seems that the world of music is full of people who seemingly work backwards from this perspective: they are consciously careless, difficult, and mercurial because they think that their talent deserves accommodation. And those people need to be shot into the fucking sun.

 

[TedEH]

putting a competing band together who might eat into your market share

They're already losing "market share" by keeping the singer around. If the singer goes on to be more successful or more motivated in another band, it still tells you that it wasn't a good fit in the first place. If the net result is that everyone gets to keep playing music and be reasonably happy doing it, then everyone wins. One more band in the area to "compete against" is far from a big deal IMO.

 

[S920e]

Don't be offended, I am a guitar player as well, on a forum full of... guitar players.

Fair enough. My bad. I actually deal with this locally every time I have to replace a rhythm guitarist and it's pretty hard to find one if I can agree with that point. On the bright side though, it makes for great diversity when it comes time to write. We'll get a bassist or a guitarist that has a one-track writing mind. They only have a handful of licks that they can think of off hand and they fall into that repetition when it's time to write. Firing and hiring makes a band. When the right crew clicks, that's when they go somewhere. I haven't been there yet. lol

 

[Ross82]

You already know the answer buddy. As they say, "You're only as strong as the weakest link" and this appears to be an extremely weak link.

The singer can have two reactions to valid, majority agreed issues; 1 - Change her attitude, be professional and move forward together. 2 - Hit the bricks.

Really is as simple as that. The level you're playing at where you actually make money from performing, you have to treat the band as a business. As a manager its my job to hold my team members accountable for both their work performance AND their reflection of the company, in the last 2 years we've replaced 2 poorly performing members and we've grown and improved as a result.

 

[J3rryAttrick]

You sure she isn't a bass player?
She sounds like a bass player.

 

[cosmorenfro]

all i needed to read was the first sentence. you know the answer.

 

[S920e]

You sure she isn't a bass player?
She sounds like a bass player.

This joke is over a half of century and old and it never loses it's effect. lol

 

[Strobe]

Singers for cover band material are a dime a dozen. It's basically karaoke for them, they do not have to write anything. By the same token, cover bands are more like a business than other bands (partly because it's one of the few ways to reliably make money in music). Everyone seems to agree to fire her. Fire her. If you are on the fence, let her know that she is on her last chance and has to be timely and professional. I would not even bother with that though - she does not seem to have the personal qualities necessary to do the job well.

Edit: The only thing I think you are off base on is the singer saying she cannot do certain songs. Vocal chords are not like a normal instrument. They do not all have the same range. Some songs I cannot do at all. Some songs I cannot do without being very uncomfortable. I am a little surprised that RESPECT gave her trouble as it is not very high - but voices are kind of funny like this. You should find a singer who has it in their range - but as a bassist/guitarist/singer in various bands - pushing the singer to do a song that is uncomfortable for them to sing is kind of crappy. (P.S. You should still fire her)

 

[BillCosby]

Is she hot, tho?

 

[brector]

Is she hot, tho?

She has to be for all this drama

 

[LostTheTone]

Singers for cover band material are a dime a dozen. It's basically karaoke for them, they do not have to write anything. By the same token, cover bands are more like a business than other bands (partly because it's one of the few ways to reliably make money in music). Everyone seems to agree to fire her. Fire her. If you are on the fence, let her know that she is on her last chance and has to be timely and professional. I would not even bother with that though - she does not seem to have the personal qualities necessary to do the job well.

Edit: The only thing I think you are off base on is the singer saying she cannot do certain songs. Vocal chords are not like a normal instrument. They do not all have the same range. Some songs I cannot do at all. Some songs I cannot do without being very uncomfortable. I am a little surprised that RESPECT gave her trouble as it is not very high - but voices are kind of funny like this. You should find a singer who has it in their range - but as a bassist/guitarist/singer in various bands - pushing the singer to do a song that is uncomfortable for them to sing is kind of crappy. (P.S. You should still fire her)

Completely agree with this, and I say that as a singer from a half dozen cover bands.

Sure, a good singer is important, but a good singer is also one who shows up on time, sober and ready to go. Even the likes of Steve Tyler and Axl Rose (ie, legit spectacular vocalists who were also effectively indispensable to bands that made millions) pissed off their bandmates enough to trigger walk outs.

And, frankly, remember the story of Black Sabbath - Ozzy gets restless and uppity and starts to be a problem, Tony Iommi says "Never mind, we'll just get a new Ozzy" and they ended up with Dio on vocals. The lesson here is that you totally can find a new Ozzy. You might not instantly find a perfect singer, but you can find someone who is better to work with who is good enough.

I do also agree that you shouldn't be too harsh on singers generally if they can't/won't do certain songs. There's plenty of stuff that's theoretically inside my range but which I just hate trying to sing, especially sing live where I need to do a whole set. The last cover band I was in did a mix of songs with male and female singers, including Exs and Ohs by Elle King. The pitch isn't a problem, it's that in the chorus there's a run of three consecutive notes but the first one needs to be in my falsetto, the next two need to go back to my normal voice, and it's quick and needs to be precise and I just dreaded performing it because if I fucked it up I would look like a prize bell end. Oh and it's repeated a LOT in that song. And you only need to get it wrong once.

Now... I don't think that's what is happening with your singer. I think she's being a diva and is just bored of doing RESPECT. It's a big crowd pleaser and you'll get a good crowd reaction, and as a covers band the worst thing is to have a crowd who just doesn't give a crap. Even if she was struggling with it somehow (don't know how exactly), you could just stick it up at the end of the set to get a nice pop and then she can take a proper rest.

 

[Jeffrey Newton]

So my band has a issue with our singer. It's been going on for awhile now and it's coming to a head soon. I'll just list the things we are dealing with and see if I can get some feedback/opinions

- Unreliable transportation. They have gone through 4 cars in 6 years. This in turn puts unnecessary stress on the other band members when we are on time to the gig but she is running late because she had to borrow a car or even worse Uber to a gig. We then have to talk to the sound guy and let him know that we won't be able to do a complete soundcheck because of her lateness. At clubs/casinos this is a very very bad look. She's also been so late because of car problems that she almost missed the first dance songs at a wedding we were performing at. And just last gig she showed up 20 minutes before we were suppose to start when I sent a note out 3 days prior saying that the venue specifically says to be there 1 hour before we start.

- She doesn't know how to sacrifice things and she's awful with her money. She will drive an hour and a half to the beach to hang out with her friends on a Sunday and spend money on drinks/food/tolls or tickets to have her car put on the Ferry to get from one beach town to the other but then might not make it to the gig or rehearsal because her car is fucked. Instead of just staying at home on a day off and saving that money and putting it towards her car issues, she has super bad FOMO (Fear of Missing Out) and needs to go out and enjoy herself or be seen.

- Bad attitude. She does not take criticism well and gets defensive anytime you tell her what to do. We want to add new songs and flush out the older songs that we play that don't really get a response or are just outplayed. We tell her this and her first thing is to mention we should bring back a song that is 10+ years old when we literally just discussed moving forward with newer content for songs. She says she doesn't "understand" why we have this plan. We are a cover band. If we don't keep it fresh, then other bands will and we will get left behind. She was late to a acoustic duo gig 2 weeks ago and she didn't even apologize to the guitar player until AFTER the gig in a text. And the apology wasn't even a good one. She showed up at 6:05, the gig started at 6:00. Her text read "Sorry for the tardiness but also not sorry...LOL i was due to the there at 5:15!!!!"

- Lack of professionalism. We write setlists and tape them somewhere that is easily seen by the band members. Mine is usually on my mic stand or somewhere in my direct line of sight. Our keyboardist has his taped to his keyboards. Drummers is on his laptop usually. Our singer doesn't do that and just walks over to the keyboards while she's in the middle of a song and starts looking at what songs are next. It looks awful. She needs to be interacting with the crowd but she's looking at the setlist like she's deciding on what to get off a menu at a fine dining place while trying to sing a Whitney Houston song. Lately she's been refusing to sing certain songs. She said she doesn't want to sing "Respect" by Aretha Franklin. That's one of our best songs. The crowds love it and we do it well. She said her voice hurts. To me that means she's not taking care of her tool that she uses in the band. If I said I couldn't play Sweet Child O Mine because my guitar doesn't work properly, everyone would look at me and tell me to figure it out. We can not stop playing our best songs because you aren't taking care of your voice. Also we all use IEM (In Ear Monitors). We've been using them for about 5 years now. For some reason she has just decided to not use hers anymore. She never told anybody she was going to do this or gave a reason. We played a wedding a few weeks ago with a sound guy we use often. He knows our setup. We run our own in ear monitors and he just has to worry about front of house sound. Well she shows up without her earbuds and the sound guy doesn't have any monitors because he doesn't need them when he does sound for us. So now she can't hear herself that well and is out of key on certain songs. She even crouched down next to my amp cabinet to try and find the key but was still completely wrong. Also we run a laptop with a click and some samples. If she can't hear that then she will be coming in late for certain songs. And even if there was a stage monitor for her, we can't run click to that because then the crowd would hear the click track too.

So we are planning on having a meeting with her. It was suppose to happen 2 weeks ago at rehearsal but we had to cancel rehearsal because of her car issues. Last night we were suppose to rehearse and have the talk but guess what, cancelled because of her car issues again! I write this long winded post to see what your guys thoughts/opinions are on this. What would you do/suggest? Have any of you been in a similar situation? How did you handle it? How did it go? Did you get rid of said person or try and work it out?

- Thanks!

How do you know when a chick singer is at your front door for an appointment? Because you hear her fumbling for the key that she can't find, and when she finally finds it, she comes in late....

 

[J3rryAttrick]

This joke is over a half of century and old and it never loses it's effect. lol

Sadly, it came to mind because it's MY bass player.
We've got a festival gig Friday and this mother fucking DUI having, mouth breathing idiot just pulled the "i'm trying to get a ride guys" while we sat at the rehearsal space all day yesterday. That, and I'm sick of having to write his basslines.
I think this thread just made me realize we need to kick him out tbh lol