Problems with band member

[Riffer]

Thanks for all the responses. I know it seems very cut and dry, and to me it is, but a few members of the band want to give her an ultimatum before we make a decision. Basically see how she reacts when confronted and base our decision on that. I just don't think she will see what our problems are and will probably deflect and not take any responsibility.

NTAH up to your disregard for strained vocal cords. You could bash your guitar to bits and have a backup ready to play for <$500, don’t be a twat and dismiss potential bodily injury because you equate it to your guitar.

Edit: The only thing I think you are off base on is the singer saying she cannot do certain songs. Vocal chords are not like a normal instrument. They do not all have the same range. Some songs I cannot do at all. Some songs I cannot do without being very uncomfortable. I am a little surprised that RESPECT gave her trouble as it is not very high - but voices are kind of funny like this. You should find a singer who has it in their range - but as a bassist/guitarist/singer in various bands - pushing the singer to do a song that is uncomfortable for them to sing is kind of crappy. (P.S. You should still fire her)

She said she would sing the songs only at weddings but as a band we decided months ago so that we shouldn't have songs that we only play at certain gigs. We should have a song list of songs that are all great and that we could play anywhere. Respect crushes at any place we play. A club, casino, private event, wedding, dive bar, etc. She is trying to dictate what songs we do because she doesn't "like" singing certain songs. Also let's say it IS because her voice is giving her problems. Well she goes out on our off nights and goes to see other musician friends at local bars and gets up and sings songs with them and put unnecessary stress on her voice when she shouldn't. And like @Strobe said, RESPECT is not very high. She belts out other stuff like Whitney Houston and Journey but then can't do Respect? She doesn't do any type of vocal practice or voice exercises that I've ever seen. We even said hey let's just tune down 1/2 step and she got all bent out of shape about it. She said "It sounds weird". She doesn't understand keys or why we move the chords around to make it easier for her and for us.

 

[Rubbishplayer]

We even said hey let's just tune down 1/2 step and she got all bent out of shape about it. She said "It sounds weird". She doesn't understand keys or why we move the chords around to make it easier for her and for us.

Maybe she has perfect pitch? I can play Hendrix songs in any key, but they only sound right to me in the original key, with the guitar tuned down a semitone (well that, and played better than I do, natch)...

 

[LostTheTone]

Also let's say it IS because her voice is giving her problems. Well she goes out on our off nights and goes to see other musician friends at local bars and gets up and sings songs with them and put unnecessary stress on her voice when she shouldn't

See that just makes it worse, and it honestly makes me mad at her.

Oh the poor love strained her vocal chords dicking around on her off nights? Well suck it up.

 

[budda]

If you guys get paid, treat it as a job . Her 3 strikes seem to have been used.

Now you also have to decide if you want to be in a band that gives obvious issues this many passes.

 

[ArtDecade]

She must be stupid hot and y'all are secretly crushing on her. Any other band would have bounced her to the curb by now.

 

[McBlaster]

She has a terrible case of LSD, lead singer disease. Replace her ASAP, if you don't its then equally the rest of the bands fault.

 

[Dushan S]

I kind of agree with Rubbishplayer, but I will also try to give you a different angle.

Maybe it's just me but I feel there is a problem within a band, apart from the singer. The rest of you should be on the same page when it comes to what is acceptable, what is good business and what is not. One of the reasons she acts like this may be that the rest of you do not react in the same way about her acting up at the moment it's happening. If one of you thinks she is doing something wrong, and tells her about it, she acts like she doesn't care and the rest of you stay silent, there is a problem within the bend and she is kind of a canary in the coalmine. Things like these should not necessarily lead to meetings. First time when someone fucks up something, there should be clear signal from the rest of the band that it is not acceptable and that the next time something else happens, this member is out of the band for good. The rest of you have let all of this happen by not acting when it was needed.

This is the reason I have never got to know successful cover band that is democracy, someone needs to be the band leader. Authority may come from the character, or it is a best player by far, or he manages band, it depends. In your case, her behavior is just a part of the problem, the other part is that there is no united front, there is no clear reaction from the all of you not taking the shit from her.
When it comes to meeting with her, there should be consensus from the rest of you before the meeting, what is acceptable as a clear sign of changing the behavior. It is important, because it may end up with her saying in unclear terms "things will be better" and some of the band members could be OK with that.

Also, would you be open to have two singers? Not sure how it is where you live, but over here, these kind of bands will often have two vocals, usually male/female combination or two females. Male female combination is good because it allows the bend to have much wider range of repertoire. More range - more gigs. Two female singers have added benefit of keeping frontwomans ego in check. It can be REALLY different situation when singer is at least subconsciously aware that band can play gig without her just fine. Also two god female singers can really put on amazing show for the audience, and it can sound amazing.

I wouldn't do any behind the scenes stuff some people have suggested. At least in my case I really feel it is important to be honest and upfront, to be fair to your crew. People may agree with something you want to do about other band member on the surface, but they will think that someone else or you may also do something to them behind their back. Being honest and direct assures people I am working with that they will be treated in best possible way by me if there is a problem. So if you want to replace the singer, just clear the situation with her and THEN look for the new singer. Treat her as you would like to be treated by others. And if possible do it on the good terms. I would try to say positive things, try to make her feel that she is decent person and good singer but that all of you are not on the same page, I would wish her all the best and even offer her to find her a new band or some other kind of help if needed. Don't turn this meeting into a courtroom putting her on the defensive and using that chance to attack her and throw at her all the things you feel wronged by her through the years. Don't attack her as a person, make sure she knows you understand how she sees the situation, but make sure that it is about business and not on the personal level.

One solution I would try, if band is not on the same page about replacing her, to tell her openly that you want to have two singers so you can play with her but also play gigs as the one you missed because of the vaccine. I would offer that to her, and say that this idea is because you really understand her situation and character and don't want to necessary replace her, but you all need the money and can't afford to lose gigs.

But back to the beginning of my post, I think the problem is within the rest of you. There should be someone that even in a band democracy has a vote that is kind of bigger than all other votes, if you know what I mean. If your post/question is something that only you think about and the rest of the band is not completely agreeing, maybe you are the one that should make a new band, or split from the members who are not on the same page. It is important to understand what relationship dynamics within the band have led to this situation and make sure that in the future things work in a different, better way.

 

[James W Thomas]

A few thoughts from someone that's worked with more than a few female vocalists: if you're working with an agent and they are aware that she's problematic, you may already be losing gigs because you aren't getting calls first. They don't want to stake their reputations on a vocalist with behavior problems. You're honestly better off with an ok vocalist with a pro attitude than a stellar vocalist with all of these issues.

Where I did the bulk of my work (SoCal), it wasn't weird at all do casual gigs with other vocalists/bands from time to time, and this is a great way to get to know a replacement vocalist. If you have gigs lined up you could either plan to do them as a trial with a possible new vocalist (under a different band name), or keep using your current vocalist while doing some casual gigs with a potential new vocalist as a "get to know you." If you have a good agent, they may be able to connect you with a possible new singer - but use care here so that the agent doesn't perceive your band as broken and not bookable in the meantime.

I want to echo what others have said about cover bands and democracracies: I wish they worked, but I never made a reliable living at it until I stepped up to being a bandleader. You can be in this role and get a lot of input from your regular players, but being able to make the tough calls on your own (and maybe make a little bit extra for being the one that does all the extra work getting bookings, etc.) will keep things moving much more smoothly over time. If you and the existing band make a change, consider NOT making the new singer an equal partner exactly - that sounds harsh, but think about it.

Last, I don't know where you are geographically, but I can't imagine that this vocalist isn't replaceable. Even finding someone young and inexperienced but with a great voice and attitude can work out really well as opposed to sticking with someone with established bad habits. And as for her existing relationships with venues, they know she's unreliable too. They'll at least understand you need to make a change, if not welcome it. The only venues that might not are likely to be bars, and you sound ready to graduate from those anyway.

Good luck - this is tough stuff and why (besides being over road life) part of why I'm not doing this for a living anymore!

 

[beerandbeards]

Paul D’anno, Ozzy Osbourne, Steve Perry, David Lee Roth, etc.

you can parts ways and still be successful. Do it and enjoy less stress

(don’t take advice from me. I’m barely a basement guitarist anymore)

 

[sepsis311]

Edit: duplicate post

 

[sepsis311]

See that just makes it worse, and it honestly makes me mad at her.

Oh the poor love strained her vocal chords dicking around on her off nights? Well suck it up.

Shes singing songs she likes and is comfortable with when she goes on stage with other bands. I actually thought a lot about this today despite not knowing the OP, and probably had better things to do. It led me to believe that perhaps understanding will go a long way.

Again though it comes down to talent. When watching videos of the band, does the OP cringe and think ,"well at least we have a singer" or does he think, "she really is good, always on key and sounds like the albums." That makes the difference whether or not the issues are worth resolving.

Honestly we're just shooting in the dark. A performance video of some kind would really help. Is she good? Is the band good? (no offense).

 

[KolArdins]

That's a tough one. Based on what you've said I'd probably wait till she got to practice and then have a short loop written, maybe 8 bars and all sing the following words to it:

Heeeeeeeeeeeey
You're fucking fired
Now turn the fuck around
And get the fuck out

 

[LostTheTone]

Shes singing songs she likes and is comfortable with when she goes on stage with other bands. I actually thought a lot about this today despite not knowing the OP, and probably had better things to do. It led me to believe that perhaps understanding will go a long way.

Sure, but we're not talking about her having a side project that is an artsy creative outlet for her. If she wants to be in someone else's band, she has that option. But if she wants to be in the main band at all (and get paid) then she has to do covers band stuff.

And, frankly, I don't buy that jumping up and doing a few songs of karaoke (effectively) is causing her voice problems. Yes, you can strain your voice, but singers still practise, you know? I'm not saying that everyone should have an iron larynx, or that they have to do hours every day to call themselves a singer. I'm just saying that practising a half hour or an hour a day is a normal thing, and it shouldn't strain anything at that sort of level. Doing a couple of extra songs just shouldn't make the difference unless she's doing something wrong.

 

[nightlight]

With regard to what you said about her having a following, maybe you should just be a bit calmer when you guys explain the situation and try to work things out. Never pays to burn bridges, you just need to stress how "we're all professionals, so let's act like it".

The vaccination thing is another thing altogether. I don't really begrudge people if they're not vaccinated, but if it poses a risk to your loved ones, I'd say the discomfort is warranted and you should find someone who's not jittery about getting jabbed.

 

[LostTheTone]

The vaccination thing is another thing altogether. I don't really begrudge people if they're not vaccinated, but if it poses a risk to your loved ones, I'd say the discomfort is warranted and you should find someone who's not jittery about getting jabbed.

I don't even think there is a need to talk about the actual medical whatever of Covid. It's a professionalism thing again.

Whether or not you like it, there are going to be venues that want everyone to be vaccinated. There are going to be customers who will ask about it. If you're going to be an actual gigging band at the moment then this going to come up. No, it might not lose you too many gigs all told, but you want every gig you can get, so just be professional and make it easy to get gigs.

If I had a band member who was like a militant atheist (or feminist possibly?) who would openly mock people getting married and just couldn't help themselves then it'd be the same deal. Dude; you're entitled to your strongly held beliefs but when you're sabotaging our ability to actually be a band that shit is not ok.

 

[nightlight]

I don't even think there is a need to talk about the actual medical whatever of Covid. It's a professionalism thing again.

Whether or not you like it, there are going to be venues that want everyone to be vaccinated. There are going to be customers who will ask about it. If you're going to be an actual gigging band at the moment then this going to come up. No, it might not lose you too many gigs all told, but you want every gig you can get, so just be professional and make it easy to get gigs.

If I had a band member who was like a militant atheist (or feminist possibly?) who would openly mock people getting married and just couldn't help themselves then it'd be the same deal. Dude; you're entitled to your strongly held beliefs but when you're sabotaging our ability to actually be a band that shit is not ok.

At the same time, I don't see any point in trying to force anyone to be vaccinated just to gig. Doesn't seem like a logical reason for anyone to get vaccinated, imho.

I'd be more concerned about the fact that the singer doesn't wear a mask and roams around freely. That could pose a risk to other band members and their families, which is why I indicated that I would base my decision largely upon that.

Again, there don't appear to be any ego or performance issues, the main problem appears to be the person coming late to jams. And you need to explain that in a polite way which doesn't burn any bridges.

For example, I would suggest that the band have a rule that if a person comes late for practice, they put $5 in a band fund.

And if God forbid they come late for a performance, their pay should be prorated according to how late they were vis-a-vis the entire set.

Just be polite and you'll likely sort this out without any animosity. After all, if the singer is good, you just need to ease all the tensions and get back to being friends with each other. You just need to explain it to her as "professionals to a professional".

Throwing out members is never the solution unless there is absolutely no other option. After all, your band is getting offered $3.5k for gigs. Don't throw out the baby with the bath water.

 

[LostTheTone]

Thing is though, it really seems to me like all these issues are connected. If you really like the singer then fine you can accommodate them as best you can, but if the prospect of being paid to come and do something they enjoy doesn't motivate them sufficiently then... What can you do?

It sounds a bit wankery, but bands need people to be committed; at least committed enough to actually meet the minimum requirements to show up on time and play the bloody gig.

 

[Riffer]

We are planning to have the talk/meeting before a gig (wedding) we have on Sunday up in New York. Not ideal, but if we keep pushing it off it'll just get harder to do. I'm actually going to take some of the replies I've seen here and bring them to the other members of the band for consideration. There are some that I think are good advice and come from a different perspective which is always good to have. At the end of the day though, this is a business and should be treated as such. Thanks again for any/all advice, opinions, thoughts, and jabs/jokes lol. I appreciate the responses.

 

[budda]

Having a stressful meeting right before an important gig is not the best idea . I would not risk messing up someone's biggest day with band drama.

 

[TedEH]

^ If anything is going to tank your reputation, it's going to be stirring up drama at the events you're hired to play. Definitely don't risk roping your clients and events into things.

Throwing out members is never the solution unless there is absolutely no other option. After all, your band is getting offered $3.5k for gigs. Don't throw out the baby with the bath water.

Or you could look at it exactly the opposite way - the band was offered the gig, not the singer. The singer is not the band. The whole thread reads to me like the singer is the weakest part of the band. Tightening up the weakest aspect of the band is going to improve your prospects, not ruin them. If losing the singer means you've lost all of your following as a band, then maybe the band wasn't that strong to begin with, and you've still learned something valuable.