EVH Amp vs Axe Fx, QC and Tone Master Pro

[ExMachina]

All of that didn't stop the Fractal and QC from being pretty darn accurate.

Well did you set the impedance curves on each unit?

Changing the curve manually on the TMP didn't stop it from being accurate either.

 

[HeHasTheJazzHands]

Can you even set impedance curve on the NDSP? Lol
I know you can do that on Fractal but I can guarantee you like 95% of users aint touching that shit

 

[Guitarjon]

Can you even set impedance curve on the NDSP? Lol

Nope

 

[HeHasTheJazzHands]

I'm just saying but if the selling point of your unit is to make it the most idiot proof modeler of the bunch but at the same time you have to jump through hoops to actually make the amp accurate while your competition gets there with very minimal work.. Ya fucked up lol

 

[Guitarjon]

I'm just saying but if the selling point of your unit is to make it the most idiot proof modeler of the bunch but at the same time you have to jump through hoops to actually make the amp accurate while your competition gets there with very minimal work.. Ya fucked up lol

Good point

 

[TedEH]

As much as the model might not be the most accurate, it doesn't defeat the question of whether or not it sounds good or is usable. "Accuracy" is not the only way to measure an amp model. IR choice and whatever other tweaking etc. someone might do are probably going to make a much bigger difference that what you hear in this comparison, IMO. It's not like anyone is claiming that this difference makes the TMP unusable or "bad" sounding.

On top of that, I find my time spent with a Fractal highlights how much models reaaaaaaaally depend on context to reach anything you could call "accuracy". When you have the setup and time to normalize for all the things that could be different - you're in your own studio, you have your own cabs / loads / IRs, always through the same monitors, etc etc., then sure, you can aim for accuracy. But a working musician won't have those all the time. I'm not going to stroll into a venue and expect to have a super-accurate reproduction of my amp at home come through the PA. It just doesn't work that way. And no audience will be able to tell the difference anyway. If the vague character is 95% of the way there, then the job is done, and you adjust to circumstances - whether it's live or recording or whatever else - same as you would with a real amp.

 

[MetalDestroyer]

I will say when I was in high school my rig was a 5150 III 50w. I sold it in college because I was broke and only playing low gain stuff for a few years. When I got the Axe-Fx and loaded up the 5150 III model I was instantly like "oh yeah, that's the 5150 III sound." Very instantly recognizable for me - there's this very specific character in the mids and the highs that separates it from other amps for me. I've never heard a 5150 III demo that didn't have that character - 6L6, EL34, 50W, 100W, stealth - they all have that same underlying tone despite their differences. And the TMP, at least in this demo, has none of that.

It sounds like what someone who is only familiar with Line 6 Spiders thinks the 5150 III sounds like. It sounds like the whole ass reason people like to say digital amps suck. And it's not the only high gain amp in the TMP that I've heard sound like a wet noodle in demos. I just genuinely don't see why you would spend TMP money if you want high gain sounds while the FM9 no longer has a waitlist, the QC and Helix are available everywhere, and heck even the Kemper still exists.

 

[ExMachina]

I guess all I'm saying is that the video is showing the users ability to dial in models to sound the same. It is interesting that it was much easier to do on the other units.

Concluding that one modeler is less "accurate" or sounds bad in this case is just wrong. Should get a lot of views though,.so mission accomplished.

 

[Guitarjon]

I guess all I'm saying is that the video is showing the users ability to dial in models to sound the same. It is interesting that it was much easier to do on the other units.

Concluding that one modeler is less "accurate" or sounds bad in this case is just wrong. Should get a lot of views though,.so mission accomplished.

Uhm, isn't it ironic that this is one of the most extreme cases of inaccuracy that I've ever encountered in one of these tests?

 

[ExMachina]

Uhm, isn't it ironic that this is one of the most extreme cases of inaccuracy that I've ever encountered in one of these tests?

Maybe if you had actually measured accuracy.

 

[Guitarjon]

Maybe if you had actually measured accuracy.

I welcome you to provide us with your own accurate comparison! I'd be very interested in seeing what you come up with!

 

[ExMachina]

I welcome you to provide us with your own accurate comparison! I'd be very interested in seeing what you come up with!

I don't have a room full of amps nor a 1800 dollars for another modeler...

 

[Jon Pearson]

Oh the internet, where everyone is always wrong

 

[Guitarjon]

Oh the internet, where everyone is always wrong

I used to say to my parents: when I grow up I want to be wrong!

 

[HeHasTheJazzHands]

All I know is that Jon won't be getting any Fender gear sent to him to demo in the near future lol

 

[Guitarjon]

All I know is that Jon won't be getting any Fender gear to demo in the near future lol

Well, I did make a video about an EVH 50w 6L6 breaking twice and also a video on why I sold all my Fender guitars and that didn't stop them but maybe you're right. The people I dealt with were really nice.

I think it's important that brands allow us to stay honest and objective. If a product fails to deliver, it's not our fault. We have to display the product as they are. What the brands do with that is up to them.

 

[narad]

I'm just saying but if the selling point of your unit is to make it the most idiot proof modeler of the bunch but at the same time you have to jump through hoops to actually make the amp accurate while your competition gets there with very minimal work.. Ya fucked up lol

While this is true, for the many viewers who might not be familiar with the extent of the variables that many digital solutions allow you to tweak, the take-away is probably that the TMP sounds worse, regardless of if it merely sounds different, or if, when setup more carefully comes much closer to the reference amp. I don't have one, so just going on @ExMachina's point here. A good follow-up video would be to explore this, and would probably qualify as "due diligence" in terms of being a gear reviewer.

In my field we often have people propose new ideas with what appears to be the empirical results to back them up, but often much of the difference can be attributed to "love and care" applied to their own ideas and not to baseline systems. It's no different here -- it's great if it works out of the box, but the Fractal and QC are boxes that have have years of refinement to help them function "out of the box". What is important is really what they're capable of with appropriate settings and the rest of the signal chain chosen appropriately. The rest will just come in time.

 

[Guitarjon]

 

[GunpointMetal]

While this is true, for the many viewers who might not be familiar with the extent of the variables that many digital solutions allow you to tweak, the take-away is probably that the TMP sounds worse, regardless of if it merely sounds different, or if, when setup more carefully comes much closer to the reference amp. I don't have one, so just going on @ExMachina's point here. A good follow-up video would be to explore this, and would probably qualify as "due diligence" in terms of being a gear reviewer.

In my field we often have people propose new ideas with what appears to be the empirical results to back them up, but often much of the difference can be attributed to "love and care" applied to their own ideas and not to baseline systems. It's no different here -- it's great if it works out of the box, but the Fractal and QC are boxes that have have years of refinement to help them function "out of the box". What is important is really what they're capable of with appropriate settings and the rest of the signal chain chosen appropriately. The rest will just come in time.

Alternatively, I'd rather see "two minute drills" for this stuff. @Guitarjon gets the amp tone, then gets a short period of time with each modeler to get them close. To me this is a better indicator or real-world use and the usability of a device. You can turn a real amp into a different thing all-together if you have the time to change parts values, swap tubes, etc. But most people are going to plug in, turn a few knobs, and decide if it sounds like what they want or not and either get it or move on. One of the big complaints I see for HX modeling (never a problem I've had personally) is that you have do a lot of tweaking to get good sounds. Part of the appeal of the GUI is speed of function. If you gotta go figure out what the impedance curve is and add a parametric EQ just to get close, seems like it might be the modeling.

 

[Guitarjon]

Alternatively, I'd rather see "two minute drills" for this stuff. @Guitarjon gets the amp tone, then gets a short period of time with each modeler to get them close. To me this is a better indicator or real-world use and the usability of a device. You can turn a real amp into a different thing all-together if you have the time to change parts values, swap tubes, etc. But most people are going to plug in, turn a few knobs, and decide if it sounds like what they want or not and either get it or move on. One of the big complaints I see for HX modeling (never a problem I've had personally) is that you have do a lot of tweaking to get good sounds. Part of the appeal of the GUI is speed of function. If you gotta go figure out what the impedance curve is and add a parametric EQ just to get close, seems like it might be the modeling.

Fwiw, usually when I do these comparisons I try to not spend too much time on the platforms. In this case I only spent a bit more time on the TMP because of the factory reset that I did but turning some knobs doesn't have to take much time. With the Fractal I didn't to into any of the deep parameters etc aside from the resonance control. I like to keep things simple, it also helps to keep me sane!